Bobby coached Gail Devers too ?
Strike what ? 10 ?
Bobby coached Gail Devers too ?
Strike what ? 10 ?
The only one to have athletes caught are the Salazar and Schurmaker.
Americans give her a pass.many of the rest of us dont.she looks like an obvious doper to me.
I came across an interesting article by Lee Benson in the Deseret News from back in 1989. The article was written after FloJo suddenly retired. In his m ind, this made no sense. The fact that she's just retire was very suspicious. In the article, he writes that Carl Lewis apparently told people that he knew Flo-Jo was on drugs.
Benson wrote:
In Philadelphia, Carl Lewis told a group of students at the University of Pennsylvania that he knew, "from some very reliable sources," that Flo-Jo used male-hormone steroids in 1988.
And in Washington, D.C., at a steroid-investigation meeting of the Senate Judiciary Committee, before- and after-pictures from a West German track magazine were presented as evidence of the kind of dramatic steroid-induced changes that can occur in a human body. The pictures, with the head cropped off, were of Ms. Joyner's body, in 1985 and 1988. No one on the committee believed they were of the same person, or that the second photo was a woman.
Griffith Joyner has denied any and all charges.
It's a great read.
https://www.deseret.com/1989/4/22/18804077/flo-jo-s-last-run-will-be-away-from-steroid-issuerojo wrote:
not a kersee fan wrote:
Kersee accused in 1989 by Canadian star Bailey, who trained with him
/
This is an amazing thread and that was an amazing article. i didn't know the stuff about Kersee and the 80s. I can't believe I didn't know about that but I guess I've never been as interested in sprinting as I am distance running.
The last 2 paragraphs of that article are unreal.
UP wrote:
Instead, Bailey's boyfriend and former coach testified he pushed Bailey to phone the endrocinologist. The doctor told her use of growth hormone to treat dwarfism shortened life spans and any healthy athlete taking the drug was playing with time.
'When I went to the Olympics and looked at those athletes, I said: 'Sure you have the enjoyment now, but you may be dead in a few years,'' Bailey said.
FloJo would be dead within 10 years.
Exactly. Doping kills and coaches and doctors doping athletes should be held accountible.
If he has been working at a University and made steroids mandatory for the team he should be in jail.
The civil justice system is to weak in this respect.
@Rojo, in your research you missed the most damning allegation against Flo Jo. Darrell Robinson, who in the moid-80s was in the world's top 5 400m runners alleged in a German magazine and on TV that he sold Flo Jo HGH in March 1988 and that he himself received drugs from Kersee. Flo Jo said she would sue him but in the end decided not to. Google will give you numerous articles.
Funnily enough, I remember Robinson at the time as this really cool looking, skinny kid who floated around the track. He looked like he should have been a member of The Jacksons. Laughably, I thought because of his slim appearance he was the least likely athlete in his event to be doping.
If Rojo or anyone is interested in learning more about this period, they would do well to read Charlie Francis's book Speed Trap.
He was very well connected to the US coaches - claims that John Smith told him everything he knew about steroids - but also spent time in East Germany. He claims that whereas the East German drug protocols of sprinters were overseen by Chemists and run with a degree of scientific control, in the US it was the Wild West and female athletes were taking far higher doses than their East German competitors.
According to former pros/olympians I’m friends with who are in the know, Felix is definitely dirty
carlyle darnell castright wrote:
According to former pros/olympians I’m friends with who are in the know, Felix is definitely dirty
She's tiny. What bodybuilding drugs is she on?
Hold my Hot Pocket wrote:
As to why Kersee isn't held to the same degree of scrutiny as other coaches, there are likely many contributing reasons, but one of the main ones has to be that younger people (such as many on this message board) just don't know much about him. They've probably heard his name and might know that he coaches some top sprinters, but that's about it. They don't think of him as FloJo and JJK's coach; he's Felix and McLaughlin's coach.
Most casual track fans don't have a huge amount of knowledge about the sport, its history, etc. So they'll go after Salazar, Schumacher, Aden, and others when that is the topic of the week, and maybe bone up on their knowledge of those coaches' histories.
To me, it is a no-brainer that Kersee warrants at least some suspicion. Realistically, when you coach multiple world record-holders in the modern era, that alone warrants suspicion. Then there is the glaringly obvious problem of JJK and FloJo (though for some reason, people seem less interested in speculating about JJK). Rightly or wrongly, a high percentage of people will say that not only did FloJo use PEDs heavily, but that it was one of the most blatantly obvious cases of doping in T&F history. So for anyone holding that position, it follows that Bobby Kersee should be held under a similar amount of suspicion as Flojo.
So I put down the (perceived) lack of suspicion of Kersee on both the lack of knowledge by many track fans as to the suspicious athletes he has coached, and just the general tendency of people to only get riled up about the story of the week (NOP, etc), and ignore other equally relevant topics in plain sight until someone else stirs it up.
Also, if Kersee is a doping coach, he has been very effective at covering his tracks through the years.
I think the above is pretty accurate. Most fans now have no idea of Kersee's past.
In that transitional period when we went from only testing in competition to out of competition, many dirty coaches were given a free pass. But there was so much anecdotal evidence against Kersee; the Bailey, Robinson, Connolly direct accusations as well as the indirect evidence. I think it is telling that Robinson was never sued.
What I will say is don't forget Kersee only trained Flo Jo up to the US Trials (so he was responsible for getting her into that form) however after that they parted ways, and husband Al then coached her to Seoul. From what I heard, it was then that they experimented more with dosages, and I think the cumulative effect essentially cost her her life.
Regarding what they were taking, it's worth noting that the GDR machine was just steroids, whereas Kersee's atheletes were also taking HGH. It certainly gave them the edge.
I have reliable information from a source - I really cannot give anymore information - that the rumours that Flo Jo was effectively forced to retire are true. The decision was made during Seoul, after Johnson's failed test. Flo Jo had also failed a test, but it was covered up and the agreement was she would retire. It wasnt to avoid out of competition testing, as some suggested, but directly as a result of an agreement made not to band her. "Go at the end of this season and we shall do nothing about it".
I would also point out other things Kersee has done: He took Brisco-Hooks from a mediocre 51-52 sec 400m runner to a 48.83 NR that lasted 22 years IN ONE SEASON; he took Joanna Hayes from good 100m hurdler to 12.37 and Olympic Champion. We have spoken about Devers. And whilst he has had success with male athletes, I think it's obvious why his greatest successes have been female athletes: greater effect of steroids on performance.
Now, McLaughlin and Felix.... the same source that told me of the Flo Jo decision thinks that IF Kersee is still doping athletes, he is doing it very differently to the 80's and early 90's. (and of course he has to with better testing) He believes he has either gone into the world of microdosing, or was using undetectable drugs for a while eg EPO, before we had tests. Kersee is very clever with his athletes, Felix and McLaughlin have very restricted competition programmes, they do not compete all over the circuit as often as other women. It could be just to keep them rested, but it could be to reduce their exposure to international testing more. But he thinks it's just as likely he isn't doping his athletes now either. For me, once a doping coach, always a doping coach. He has created a reputation of high performing athletes, and to do this he doped them. I don't think he is not doping, he needs some sort of assistance to keep his standard high.
A. Carl Lewis has some nerve calling out anyone considering his doping. The whole team was tested internally and told to chill. Most of Athletics West had braces, grown adults?
B. Any side-by-sides of McLaughlin?
C. I'd like to believe The Mc's are clean, but in the WayBack I though Marion was clean because she still looked like a girl :/
2 THE GILLS!!!
Kersee's history raises obvious suspicions regarding every athlete he works with. Then again, so does the nature of the sport itself. I don't think any international sprinting champion in the last 30 years has been clean. PEDs are rampant in sports. In the NBA for example it has become a joke. And for an athlete like McLaughlin Olympic glory meant endorsements and a lot of money. That is a hell of an incentive.
She’s religious and loves to give glory to god all the time, so we assume she must be god fearing obviating USADA or IAAF fearing.
plus it's obvious from her body build that she doesn't use peds. Looks all natty
It's also worth noting, that in the last quarter of 2019, USADA didn't conduct any dope tests on McLaughlin. They did 2 in Q1 of 2020, before upping it in the summer. (remember she switched to Kersee in 2020). In the first quarter of 2021 they conducted just 1 test on her. In that 20 month period from Q4 of 2019 to Q1 of 2021 she had 10 USADA tests. As she didn't leave the US until Tokyo, other countries would not have tested her. Of course, WADA could have tested her in the US, but we don't have those figures.
Felix had 13 tests in that same period. (2019 Q4 to 2021 Q1) However...Felix still only had 1 test in each of the 'critical' Q1 & Q4 of each season.
And this is where I have a problem. McLaughlin had just run an amazing race in Doha with Muhammad, and yet USADA did not conduct any dope tests on them after that race in October, November or December. (and who knows what month the 2 tests in Q1 2020 were, they may not have been done until March).
Q2 and Q3 tests mean nothing, smart doping regimes should not see your athletes missing tests in summer, doping agencies need to get them in the offseason, in Q1 & Q4.
On the plus side, USADA does at least publish the tests conducted and breaks down by quarter. WADA doesn't, and I cant see other agencies doing that, so that's a big positive, however, testing is meaningless in summer months, you need to test in Q4 and Q1.
I mean how on earth are people not picking up on Bol!!!
Look at her and the training group! even the older members of the group! like the one who retired last year after running a PB in her 30s
not a kersee fan wrote:
I've heard off and on for years on this board that Bobby Kersee is widely suspected of drugging up his Olympic athletes, going back to JJK in the 80s (whose records still haven't been touched, by the way). Wasn't Flojo coached by Kersee too?
However, over the years, I've heard very little suspicion of Allyson Felix and none regarding Sydney McLaughlin. Now, it's true that both of these athletes had very gradual progressions since being ultra-elite high school athletes. They haven't blown away records like Flojo or JJK. Maybe Kersee has backed off in recent years?
Regarding McLaughlin, however, I submit to you the story Rojo linked in another thread this morning. Look at Sydney's facial features in the photo.
Something's changed a little there, similar to what we've seen in other steroid athletes. Has Kersee administered some levels of the stuff that's boosted her just enough to lower those hurdle times this year like she has? I just don't understand why she (and to a lesser degree, Felix) gets a free pass when Kersee is widely suspected of doping his athletes from a previous generation.
I said Sydney was doping 2 years ago...
See the square jaws...Classic sign of roids..
Just because Kersee's athletes in the past used drugs doesn't automatically mean that every athlete he will ever coach will all use drugs.
Sydney's improvement with Kersee had to do with A) her start, B) her hurdling technique, C) changing to a 14 step pattern for the first half of the race.
Those 3 things, plus a crazy fast track in Tokyo, were enough for her to drop .77 seconds in her time. (52.23 down to 51.46)