malmo wrote:
WTF is African style?
Are you trolling? Of course you had to have inferred what the OP was implying, right? I don’t take you for being dense but that response was a doozy.
I used a hybrid hurdle style which meant I never had a straight lead leg but did have a regular trail leg. Of course that being said I wasn’t moving as fast as them and weighed about 50 lbs more. When you’re that light almost anything works.
Jefe in the CO wrote:
malmo wrote:
WTF is African style?
Are you trolling? Of course you had to have inferred what the OP was implying, right? I don’t take you for being dense but that response was a doozy.
.
The great majority hurdle the the West of Us, only better. Any student of the sport would know that.
As far as the women's steeple goes, the barriers are so low that none of the are really hurtling, because they don't have to. They just step over the barriers.
The objective of the steeplechase is to get over the barriers with a smooth trajectory. The Kenyans di that quite well.
There should be far greater scrutiny of this hurdling style, given El Bakkali's injury today. It was very obvious what happened...El Bakkali approaching the first barrier began his typical straight ahead technique, when his left leg was hit on the way up by the side saddle hurdling style of an East African to his immediate left. That impact totally compromised El Bakkali's leap and led to the injury, which appeared to be serious. The East African hurdler clearly felt the impact. He turned and looked back to his right at El Bakkali.
I'm surprised this doesn't happen more frequently. The East African steeplechasers do not stay in their own lane while hurdling. It is blatantly evident when viewed from beyond the barrier. They splay their legs well to the right and assume they can take as much room as they want. Consequently there should never be an international steeplechase race with anything approaching a ridiculous 19 entrants, like Paris on Saturday. They are just asking for trouble especially at the congested beginning.
I have no idea why the commentators didn't pick up on the cause of the injury. The coverage showed the replay of El Bakkaili's fall just after the race ended. I knew Paul Swangard would be totally clueless. In real time he barely mentioned El Bakkali's injury at all, waiting nearly a half lap to notice. He didn't raise his voice at all or emphasize the significance. Then he cut off Des Linden when she was trying to make a related point. Swangard thought it was more important to describe the lead order than to focus on the Olympic champion going down.
Contrast to the BBC coverage where the play by play guy saw El Bakkali's injury immediately and loudly made it the central theme, as Tim Hutchings did the same. The BBC crew thought El Bakkali simply failed on his jump. That made sense until the replay was shown, with El Bakkali launching per norm until compromised from his left.
I hope he is okay. I have not seen an injury update.
malmo wrote:
WTF is African style?
U mad Bro ???
And Komen did not understand time wrote:
awkward hurdling wrote:
“African style” just signals that you have better fitness than technique. If you are fit enough you can get away with it. It requires jumping higher to clear the barriers.
There is a reason you will only see in in the 400h at the high school level. It is on par with starting without blocks.
Technique my ass. What the OP refers to by African style is flying across the whole damn water jump without even touching the barrier. It is by far the most efficient way to do it but unless you have supreme athleticism you will knock your front teeth out trying it.
There is a reason you are lucky to get 1 white dude to represent Team USA at the Worlds or Olympics level.
No, the OP was referring to both feet on one side. Even clearing the water without stepping on the barrier is done best with traditional hurdle style, but requires some speed.
If you watched the men at Paris none of them were doing “African Style”. Malmo did make a good point about the women’s hurdles being ridiculously low. It is still less efficient as you have to jump higher.
Lots of focus on women in the discussion, but I believe Kipruto also tucked both his legs while hurdling. Probably a lot of factors determine what is most efficient. Flexibility, how tall an athlete is, jumping ability, and actual running speed.
I also noticed this. It does appear Jeruto's style is less energy consuming but Courtney also gets forward momentum after clearing the barrier. Also, a the water jump, Jeruto seemed to nudge her body a bit like a high jumper to land right in the deepest part of the water pit. I also wondered if one needs a different kind of flexibility for the African way. Maybe shorter legs would help as well.
1. Yes
2. A little bit.
3. No
4. Yes
5. Maybe, it's really about speed/momentum.
6.
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The African steepling technique is very inefficient. It's like they really don't practice it. The best ones are much better distance runners than most of the Americans and that's what makes the difference. In a race without hurdles, the gap between their best and the US best would be much larger. Westerners make up for lack of running ability with better technique over the barriers. Attempting to copy the Africans on the barriers would reduce performance.
Jeruot looks twisted here while Frericks keeps her momentum forward.
I think fitness is making up for inefficient hurdling.
Star wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/193355775@N08/51394550830/Jeruot looks twisted here while Frericks keeps her momentum forward.
I think fitness is making up for inefficient hurdling.
Also, look at how much higher her hips have to get to clear the barrier. It is just wasted energy.
If someone is significantly faster they can win a 400 without using blocks. That doesn’t mean the rest of the field should stop using them.
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Probably not.
4. No. I have tried hurdling the water barrier instead of stepping, and I have cleared the water before. I found both ways to be less efficient, at least for myself.
5. Probably not. Dunkings are usually caused by heavy traffic.
6. Not really.
awkward hurdling wrote:[/b
Also, look at how much higher her hips have to get to clear the barrier. It is just wasted energy.
Raising a straight extended leg takes a lot more force than raising a bent leg. It is just wasted energy.
The rationale for doing this in sprints (keep high turnover by staying near the ground) doesn't apply in an event where you don't need high turnover.
1. yes
2. not really, but coaches said use their hurdle technique
3. don't know- never objectively compared/measured the two techniques
4. no
5. perhaps
The so called "african" technique is much more than just tucking the legs under and allowing momentum to carry them over the over the barrier. It is actually a jump. They push up and off much harder than a normal stride step before the barrier. They elevate higher above the track than a regular stride to clear the barrier.
There is no rule on how you must clear the barriers. No rule that states you have to stay in your lane. There is always chance of some contact during the steeplechase. Can happen with only a few runners in the race.
Efficiency is only part of the equation. You spend much more time running than hurdling, so running fitness is the most important part of a fast steeple. Agree that raw athleticism (esp. jumping ability, 'hops' can compensate for inefficient technique.
Good lead leg/trail leg hurdling technique may be more efficient in shorter races at higher speeds, but it is not natural and takes effort/time/practice to learn.
I remember this coming up when Keino decided to sneak a random gold medal in Munich. The CW was that the Africans had terribly inefficient hurdling, but were so much better otherwise that it did not matter. Keino proved this. He was the best runner, but looked the worst over the barriers. Jipcho was a bit better. The same applies today. If you are thinking of gaining that extra edge by apeing the 'African Style' of hurdling - well, good luck with that!
Reality Bath wrote:
awkward hurdling wrote:
“African style” just signals that you have better fitness than technique. If you are fit enough you can get away with it. It requires jumping higher to clear the barriers.
There is a reason you will only see in in the 400h at the high school level. It is on par with starting without blocks.
Good synopsis. And the blocks analogy is spot on. I also suspect that it helps to be a small runner. Hard to imagine a Ferlic or El Bakkali doing that the whole way, but I might be wrong.
Also, hurdling barriers using the traditional technique requires barriers to practice on. I would bet a lot of the African hurdlers don't have barriers/water jumps readily available. Personally, I think the traditional technique is more efficient. You don't see any 110 or 400 hurdlers hopping the hurdles. It does require learning/practice, though. The African technique doesn't.
Ran my first steeple over 30 years ago. Still love it.
1 - yes
2 - yes
3 - no (not for me). For the lower barriers (for the women plus M60 men), it probably saves a lot more.
4 - yes, but it requires a lot of speed/strength to work!
5 - probably
6 - I think it probably comes down to what works for you. The barriers really mess with your rhythm which is one of the beautiful things about the event. So, what ever comes easiest is probably best.
I’m also not sure how many East Africans get to practice consistently over the hurdles which might be a big factor on why many favour this approach. Finally, I wonder about the injury risk re: jumping vs smooth hurdling
