I don't know if it is cleaner than ever, but it must be cleaner than it was in 1980s.
You don't have to look further than the WRs in w100m, w200m, w400m, w800m, wSP, wDT just to name a few.
The introduction of out of competition tests cleaned up the sport to a significant degree. Whether we have been sliding backwards since then is another question.
WADA is coming for u run wrote:
Can you name a top level sprinter as big as ben Johnson, baker, kerley, degrasse, Jacob's,Trayvon,simbine, and most of the other guys are smaller.
And shelly, sherika, shacarri, ta lou, del ponte, kambunji, Daniel's, and most female sprinters are much less muscular than flo jo.
I will agree that Wilma Rudolf and some 60s sprinters were smaller but that's because steriod use didn't peak until the 80s.
You are absolutely wrong. Take a look a pictures of Ben Johnson. He's not as big as you think. Certainly not much difference between him and may top sprinters today.
Flo Jo is actually smaller than most of the top female sprinters right now.
Flo jo definitely isn't huge but she was very lean most female sprinterstoday look a little fatter. Johnson wasn't that huge either but also very lean, and bigger than most of today's sprinters a 5'9 172. Some are the same weight as the 80s sprinters but have more fat on them. I was saying the quantity of bulky sprinters have gone down.
Hassan
Gidey
Katir
Cheptegei
Jacobs
…
Nope, pig in the mud still.
WADA is coming for u run wrote:
Flo jo definitely isn't huge but she was very lean most female sprinterstoday look a little fatter. Johnson wasn't that huge either but also very lean, and bigger than most of today's sprinters a 5'9 172. Some are the same weight as the 80s sprinters but have more fat on them. I was saying the quantity of bulky sprinters have gone down.
I'll give you that Ben is bulkier. I think Ben's bulk came from different weight training than today's sprinters. For the men the lean physique appears to be better for sprinting than the extra bulk. I think today they are more conscious of carrying the extra weight. The juice today is being used to recover from sprint specific work is all.
Female sprinters today are every bit as lean as Flo Jo was. Most female sprinters now have six packs and more defined delts and traps than Flo Jo had. Today's female sprinters look a whole lot like Marion Jones looked in her prime. It's no secret how she attained her physique.
Armstronglivs wrote:
No, it is dirtier than ever. There are more drugs available today and antidoping cannot keep up. Testing catches very few. As David Howman (former WADA head) says, the dopers are more sophisticated than those trying to catch them. It is a race that has been lost long ago.
Surely it's cleaner than 20 years ago?
Even by your reasoning as to why it's dirty would suggest it should be less dirty - there is less money in athletics now.
EPO testing and then the ABP has made a difference, as has the crackdown on Kenya and Morocco.
Sprinting seems to be as dirty as ever. Perhaps because the ABP isn't so effective at catching roiders?
There are more research drugs like SARMS but they are weak sauce compared to the old school drugs. Can't remember the name of it, but there was a popular roid in the 70's and 80's invented by the GDR that was more powerful than anything and isn't available today even on the black market.
Too much emotion too obvious wrote:
WADA is coming for u run wrote:
Flo jo definitely isn't huge but she was very lean most female sprinterstoday look a little fatter. Johnson wasn't that huge either but also very lean, and bigger than most of today's sprinters a 5'9 172. Some are the same weight as the 80s sprinters but have more fat on them. I was saying the quantity of bulky sprinters have gone down.
I'll give you that Ben is bulkier. I think Ben's bulk came from different weight training than today's sprinters. For the men the lean physique appears to be better for sprinting than the extra bulk. I think today they are more conscious of carrying the extra weight. The juice today is being used to recover from sprint specific work is all.
Female sprinters today are every bit as lean as Flo Jo was. Most female sprinters now have six packs and more defined delts and traps than Flo Jo had. Today's female sprinters look a whole lot like Marion Jones looked in her prime. It's no secret how she attained her physique.
Much more Clenbuterol abuse now. So athletes are carrying around less mass.
I can agree that many female sprinters today are bigger in weight than flo jo, and the majority are pretty lean but most don't appear to be as lean, flo jo had striations not just defined muscles.
Both generations are probably using steriods but this generation probably uses more igf, and hgh, while using smaller steriod dosages.
Chris Morris wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
No, it is dirtier than ever. There are more drugs available today and antidoping cannot keep up. Testing catches very few. As David Howman (former WADA head) says, the dopers are more sophisticated than those trying to catch them. It is a race that has been lost long ago.
Surely it's cleaner than 20 years ago?
Even by your reasoning as to why it's dirty would suggest it should be less dirty - there is less money in athletics now.
EPO testing and then the ABP has made a difference, as has the crackdown on Kenya and Morocco.
Sprinting seems to be as dirty as ever. Perhaps because the ABP isn't so effective at catching roiders?
There are more research drugs like SARMS but they are weak sauce compared to the old school drugs. Can't remember the name of it, but there was a popular roid in the 70's and 80's invented by the GDR that was more powerful than anything and isn't available today even on the black market.
I'll answer with an earlier response.
An investigation reported in 2019 on Al Jazeera revealed that the black market in doping is a billion Euros industry. It claimed there are at least 100 doping substances available on that market that escape detection. Doping has become more sophisticated. David Howman, the former head of WADA, says there are very few opportunities to catch athletes, as they would have to be tested only hours after they have taken the drugs - which won't happen in countries where there is poor OC testing - and in many instances of microdosing the drugs are out of the athletes' system after they have raced. Only "the dumb and the careless" are caught. 1% of tests result in a positive but according to Howman at least one in ten athletes will be doping and in some instances it is likely to be much higher. Some sports and some countries are worse than others. Howman says doping will never be eradicated; the best they might hope for is that they might limit it. But while doping is ahead of anti-doping, that won't happen.
If the athletes are resorting to micro dosing to avoid getting caught doesn't that mean antidoping is having an effect, in the 70s and 80s you could dope up until your competition as out of competition testing wasnt established. Also if higher but still small number of athletes are getting caught today isn't antidoping having a positive effect. Of course what they are able to do is not much but antidoping has made the sport a tiny bit cleaner. Anti doping can't stop doping but they can manage it.
If you disagree do you think antidoping is completely futile and has no affect In the sport whatsoever.
paris2024hawk wrote:
If the athletes are resorting to micro dosing to avoid getting caught doesn't that mean antidoping is having an effect, in the 70s and 80s you could dope up until your competition as out of competition testing wasnt established. Also if higher but still small number of athletes are getting caught today isn't antidoping having a positive effect. Of course what they are able to do is not much but antidoping has made the sport a tiny bit cleaner. Anti doping can't stop doping but they can manage it.
If you disagree do you think antidoping is completely futile and has no affect In the sport whatsoever.
No, micro dosing epo can have the same accumulated effect as normal dosing. Read the Secret Race if you haven’t already.
youre very wrong.all the famales you mentioned are much more muscled than flo jo,including shacarri.all the sprinters are as muscled as ben except degrasse.if you dont believe me,do a google image search,and compare.ta lou is as muscular as ben johnson,which is scary.
I agree that there isn't much of as size difference between flo jo and many modern female sprinters but flo jo appears to be leaner. Ta lou isn't as muscular as Ben Johnson you must be trolling, even most female body builders aren't as muscular as ben Johnson.
Haven't read that, ill have to check it out.I had heard micro dosing was almost but not as effective for most drugs, maybe epo is different.
Armstronglivs wrote:
… Al Jazeera … David Howman…
They didn’t just look at “the sport”.
Armstronglivs wrote:
No, it is dirtier than ever. There are more drugs available today and antidoping cannot keep up. Testing catches very few. As David Howman (former WADA head) says, the dopers are more sophisticated than those trying to catch them. It is a race that has been lost long ago.
Armstronglivs wrote:
No, it is dirtier than ever. There are more drugs available today and antidoping cannot keep up. Testing catches very few. As David Howman (former WADA head) says, the dopers are more sophisticated than those trying to catch them. It is a race that has been lost long ago.
You might be right on this. We probably agree that the GDR and SU athletes from the 70s and 80s were clean.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
… Al Jazeera … David Howman…
They didn’t just look at “the sport”.
It isn't a problem confined to any one sport. The report covered the issue globally - as WADA also does.
Doha 2019 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
No, it is dirtier than ever. There are more drugs available today and antidoping cannot keep up. Testing catches very few. As David Howman (former WADA head) says, the dopers are more sophisticated than those trying to catch them. It is a race that has been lost long ago.
You might be right on this. We probably agree that the GDR and SU athletes from the 70s and 80s were clean.
We wouldn't .
Armstronglivs wrote:
Doha 2019 wrote:
You might be right on this. We probably agree that the GDR and SU athletes from the 70s and 80s were clean.
We wouldn't .
Would you agree that the GDR has had the most professionell state organized doping system ever?