Strength coach evaluates Shelby's bust: "You are a liar"

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makbf wrote:

Possibly blindsided because testing had been stopped due to covid

Rather blindsided by the AIU tester not calling ahead like USADA used to do.

In my view it gets worse and worse for Houlihan. And if she truly is guilty, Jerry looks pretty bad after his statement too.

https://www.bowermantc.com/new-blog/2021/6/14/statement-from-coach-jerry-schumacher

"To my coaching colleagues and friends in track and field: You are the ones who know me. You know me as a friend. You know me as a competitor. You know me as an imperfect and flawed human. But you also know how I feel about doping and know that I would never disrespect you by allowing or supporting it in any fashion. "

It's possible he didn't know about it I guess. How does he keep his credibility after this?

I'm a bit nervous for our Canadian in that training group - wonder if that person is going to stay, leave, do something. What a mess.

a good lawyer cross examing him would tear him apart and make him look stupid. He a has God complex. Assumption after assumption after assumption, etc

definitely wrote:

Basically they said at the press conference they had never heard of nandrolone and it wouldn’t help a distance runner anyway. Then they tried to imply she ordered a pig organ burrito when she actually ordered a beef one. Nothing to see here.

Sure, just like it didn't help Dieter Baumann.

"On 19 October 1999 Baumann tested positive for nandrolone and received a two-year suspension, thus missing the 2000 Summer Olympics. The exact circumstances of this episode remain unclear. Baumann was voluntarily tested after the initial results by an independent institute. Extremely high levels of nandrolone continued to be found in the tests and the results of the tests fluctuated dramatically depending on which time of day Baumann was tested. After several weeks of voluntary tests, Baumann claimed that the results varied with the time of day because the nandrolone was in his toothpaste. The German Athletics Federation (DLV) reluctantly believed Baumann that someone had manipulated his toothpaste and allowed him to start at the German championships where Baumann qualified for the Olympic Games in Sydney. However, the IAAF did not agree with that verdict and imposed a ban. Baumann tried to sue the IAAF before a German court but was unsuccessful."

mitikitjd wrote:

From the 100 Write Up-(It seems worth noting here that Richardson and Oliver are both coached by Dennis Mitchell, whose Florida-based group also contains Justin Gatlin…draw your own conclusions.)

Possible Addition to the Mens 10K write up...

(It seems worth noting there that Kincaid and Fisher are both coached by Jerry Schumacher, whose Oregon-based group also contains Shelby Houlihan...draw your own conclusions.)

Yeah Brett Kavanaugh was the high school president of the 100 kegger club.

He should never be a SCOTUS.

I'm of the opinion that Shelby was taking it orally because it metabolizes out of the body quickly making it perfect for microdosing and used to improve recovery and reduce injury risk. If she was using this, how do we know she wasn't doping on anything else? Most dopers today use micro dosing to beat drug tests given the one hour daily testing window basically amounting to an intelligence test rather than a test of guilt, because you just take a small enough amount that it's out of your system by your testing window.

I specialize in dumb comments. wrote:

wejo wrote:

But it’s not accurate. I just looked at USADA data. Shelby was tested 4 times 3rd quarter and 4 in 4th quarter.

Interestingly, she was tested far more than the average USADA athlete. Does this show a history of negative testing or that they were indeed trying to catch her. Perhaps her levels of deca were suspect for a while and just below the threshold.

As a direct comparison for some of the athletes who were her top competitors. 2020-2021 total tests:

Shelby Houlihan = 25

Emma Coburn = 19 (only 1 in 2021!)

Colleen Quigley = 16

Karissa Schweizer = 12

Courtney Frerichs = 12

Nikki Hiltz = 11

Jenny Simpson = 10

Elise Cranny = 8

Elle Purrier = 7

Shannon Osika = 7

Cory McGee = 1

While we're at it:

Matt Centrowitz = 20 (12 in 2021!)

Evan Jager = 19

Donovan Brazier = 15

Lopez Lomong = 13

Ben True = 13

Bryce Hoppel = 10

Clayton Murphy = 8

Grant Fisher = 8

Joe Klecker = 3 (low number is likely because USADA doesn't test athletes when they are in college)

Woody Kincaid = 1

From what I've read and heard, frequency of testing is based on two factors: how good you are and how suspicious USADA is of you. Clearly, Houlihan is the best female US distance runner, so she was always going to be tested a lot, but it clearly looks like they were trying to catch her. That could be true for Emma Coburn as well, and clearly somebody was suspicious about her in 2020 (18 tests), while her teammate Cory McGee, who might make the Olympic team, was only tested once. Curiously, Olympic medalist Jenny Simpson was tested a lot less. Schweizer, Hiltz, Simpson, Cranny, Osika, and Purrier were all tested a similar amount. On the flip side, Quigley was tested fairly often. On the men's side, the two Olympic medalists and the world champ were tested the most. Clearly, Centrowitz must have been the boyfriend that was present for Houlihan's test, because he's been tested 12 times already in 2021. What strikes me as curious is only the single test for Kincaid. True was tested a lot for never having made a US team.

Oh, and Galen Rupp has been tested 26 times in 2020-2021.

twoggle wrote:

The following link allows the public to search the number of drug tests that an athlete had for each quarter of each year:

https://www.usada.org/news/athlete-test-history/

I see. So it looks like he may have been wrong about that part of his theory. So I think we're back to her getting a contaminated batch of testosterone that she was micro-dosing with as the most likely scenario. Or maybe she was pretty sure she wouldn't be tested by USADA at that time (maybe they hit her up early in December), but she was surprised when the AIU knocked on her door in the middle of the month.

Lots of testing means something about your tests is suspicious. More than 4 tests a quarter means they're target testing you. When you're a top athlete and you're clean, they might test you once a quarter, maybe less.

USADA is not out to catch top US athletes, just keep them in line so that they're not popped by IF's.

Wellthenfellas wrote:

a good lawyer cross examing him would tear him apart and make him look stupid. He a has God complex. Assumption after assumption after assumption, etc

This is such a weird comment because he would never be tendered as an expert (or even more obviously not lay) witness in the first place. This is just a youtube video where he admits to making (very reasonable) assumptions.

Do you really like lawyer movies or are you a lawyer who doesn't litigate?

How often was Shelby tested by AIU?

If AIU is an international body, did testers travel from Europe?

Does AIU work with USDA or independently?

Ok so they seem to test Jerry's top females A LOT.... I mean Quigley?? My guess is Purrier will be quickly climbing this list.

bet on it wrote:

Pretty compelling stuff. I did not know that nandralone was specific to joint integrity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTgpgaTRUsc

Appreciate the video and his insight, seems like a solid guy.

But surprised no one is talking about this -- he mentioned he knows from personal experience and through research done by NPR that besides being naturally occurring in small amounts in boar meat (which only makes up a small percentage of all pork consumed in the U.S.), nandrolone can not be legally administered to pig livestock and can only be used with sheep and cattle. We now know that Shelby ordered a carne asada burrito, which is beef. Could it be possible that the beef she consumed was tainted with enough nandrolone to trigger a positive result? That seems much more likely than cross contamination.

So it seems to me that Shelby's defense probably rushed their case in the interest of being cleared in time for the Trials and may have missed this detail. They were looking for cross-contamination and traces of nandrolone in the food truck's pork offerings when they should have been testing the beef. That may be why they've been so cagey and careful in their wording -- they don't have evidence to support what they're saying because they may not have been looking in the right place.

As much as I still believe Shelby I have to admit this is going to be a difficult hurdle to clear if they don't rethink their defense, and I don't think the Swiss tribunal is going to award her a pass if they try to double down on this.

Rememberer wrote:

Lots of testing means something about your tests is suspicious. More than 4 tests a quarter means they're target testing you. When you're a top athlete and you're clean, they might test you once a quarter, maybe less.

USADA is not out to catch top US athletes, just keep them in line so that they're not popped by IF's.

If you are at the highest level or your sport, shouldn’t your levels be suspicious? I understand there’s more to running than just blood values and hormone levels, but it plays a pretty big role. If you have average levels, you may be good, but not the world’s best. So I would expect world-class medal contenders to have different blood values than a 27:30-28:30 guy for example.

I know taking certain drugs can alter ratios, but these things are complex and can be altered by non-synthetic drugs. For example, say there’s a drug that vastly improves fat oxidation rates. So you may test an athlete, and see they oxidize up to 1.5 g of fat per minute (very high) and conclude they are suspicious for that drug. Well maybe that person eats a high fat diet, does lots of fasted training, takes legal supplements to enhance fat oxidation rates, and is just naturally better at burning fat due to genetics. Also, I would expect world-class ultra runners to have exceptionally good fat oxidation rates.. it would be weird if they didn’t.

So it seems that every world-class athlete should appear to be suspicious. They are literally the definition of outliers, and something has to account for their outlier-esque performances.

If Derek from More Plates More Dates does an episode and rules that yes, she is in fact on the gear/sauce/sazool,that is effectively a ruling from the highest court in the land and she is finished

Zante wrote:

nandrolone can not be legally administered to pig livestock and can only be used with sheep and cattle.

My assumption has been that this is why her lawyer etc. have been stating that it was an "authentic Mexican" food truck, trying to give the impression that the meat was imported from Mexico or something similar.

Roflcopter wrote:

I'm a bit nervous for our Canadian in that training group - wonder if that person is going to stay, leave, do something. What a mess.

GDS said recently in a podcast that the desire to train with the best 1500m woman in North America (Houlihan, obviously) was a big reason she went to Bowerman -- she's got to be a bit stressed by all this.