SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
coahc wrote:
Haha all those who are anyone has hills in their program.
Not in the form of regularly hill reps! LoL
Idiot:
You coached an athlete to run CIM and he blew up because you, despite all the warnings, refused to prepare him for the hills he encountered.
And you refused to prescribe hill training to your athlete who was going to run in the National Mountain Running Championships!
That is called coaching incompetence. LoL
From letsrun awhile back:
SearchingForFrankSoder wrote:
Give him credit; he lifted that line word for word from Marty Liquori's book.
Who? Molvar?
He wants to debate Lydiard but he leaves out one of the more important parts. Did Liquori leave that out of his book...of which I'm not sure you reference?I wasn't defending Molvar, merely pointing out that he lifted the line "It is this phase of Lydiard’s system which is probably the most controversial and also the most easily dispensed with" comes straight from Marty Liquori’s Guide for the Elite Distance Runner. It may be stupid, but it's not a Molvar original.
Just to be clear, the phase that Liquori said "is the most easily dispensed with" is the Lydiard hill phase.
coahc wrote:
Oh but let me tell you about the famous hill sessions of Abdi Bile 9 months before he won the world 1500m champs in 1987. Haha all those who are anyone has hills in their program.
Laurel St (600m) and Lorton (2000m).
I got to do plenty of those after the Bile years.
Hills elevate my heart rate even at easy pace and I know a lot of people at my club struggle on certain routes where I live, so I do them often and feel stronger for it.
Gotta run hills because your heart/lungs can train more than your legs, and your muscles get a better workout too. Hills work some things hard while going easy on others, allowing you to maximize the stimulus and minimize injury. Hill repeats/workouts are not that important, but running on hills period is a huge benefit.
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
coahc wrote:
Haha all those who are anyone has hills in their program.
Not in the form of regularly hill reps! LoL
You can't coach a 1:02 Kenyan to a sub 2:14 marathon in 5 years. Your athletes underperform all the time.
coahc has world class athletes.
And you think you are right?
You really are Letsrun's clown.
coahc wrote:
Except if you want to run well on a hilly xc course. Example Aarhus world xc if you weren't prepared for the hills through training you didn't run well. Look at the Americans who all but Bruce placed behind a 16 min 5k runner from Australia. I believe you are wrong about the benefits of hills in training.
I ran for a HS in the Sac area where many of the schools were in areas that were flat as a board. There were other schools east and west of Sacramentio that were in very hilly areas. Regardless of whether the races were on hilly or flat courses, it was always the same guys out in front.
On a recruiting trip to Humboldt State, one of their runners told me that one time they marked off a ridiculously hilly course for a duel meet with U.C. Davis. All though Davis is very flat, the Aggies won the meet.
Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:
jakobbb wrote:
Should have done more hills:
https://youtu.be/wTtH7UeQdFAHe does 20x200 hills every saturday, but Stoltzen is 910m and 36% elevation. That is kindof very specialized hill training needed... the record is 7.46
So you are agreeing with my statement. He was woefully unprepared by not doing enough hills, especially those that match race terrain. He finished 30th in mostly non-elite field.
Hey Fumerbutt 96. I guess you need attention. Get a life you insecure POS with cheeswiz foreskin.
femurboy69 wrote:
Weekly elevation gain doesn't matter for running fast at any distance marathon and under. Hill sprints or hill reps are different but I dont even think they are necessary if supplemented correctly.
Sure. That's why every elite runner does some form of hill running.
Two of my favourite track photos are of Steve Overt running sand hills in Brighton and Herb Elliott doing the same in Port sea. Has there ever been a great runner who did not incorporate hills of some sort into his workouts??
Steve overtly did hillwork and ran a hilly training route as well, while Coe did a lot of hill sprints and longer hilly runs. Juantorena, like Snell, did sand dune workouts. Rono did hills all the time. Canova's athletes do the short, steep hill sprints and run hilly courses at altitude. Hudson's athletes did the same. Mike Smith had his xc guys do hilly repeats in preparation for the hilly OK State nationals course this year. Hills give you an elevated hr and harder breathing, stronger muscles, greater toughness. When I was in my best shape on the flats, the lack of hillwork killed me on hilly courses up north.
I am not going to flat out say they don't matter, but can someone please tell me the benefit of doing hill sprints? I am talking the 1-15 second sprints - I don't get it. The whole point of running sprints is to run as fast as possible, hills prevent that. What's the point of doing them instead of flat sprints?
More power and strength focused while being generally easier on the body
femurboy69 wrote:
Weekly elevation gain doesn't matter for running fast at any distance marathon and under. Hill sprints or hill reps are different but I dont even think they are necessary if supplemented correctly.
Thank you. Way overrated. In order to run fast, at any distance, you need to train fast. End of story. Want to get strength? Do a 8x800 with 1' off
The only exception short steep hills sprints for running form.
Let it Rupp wrote:
I am not going to flat out say they don't matter, but can someone please tell me the benefit of doing hill sprints? I am talking the 1-15 second sprints - I don't get it. The whole point of running sprints is to run as fast as possible, hills prevent that. What's the point of doing them instead of flat sprints?
Hill sprints are good way to introduce speed. Flat sprints are hard due to the impact. But to fully develop functional speed you have to eventually transition to flat.
Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:
femurboy69 wrote:
Weekly elevation gain doesn't matter for running fast at any distance marathon and under. Hill sprints or hill reps are different but I dont even think they are necessary if supplemented correctly.
There is little evidence that long slower hill running gives improvements to flat running. There is evidence that sprints and short hill-work is good. I have only found one reference that found hilly running in general gave something:
"In a study by Dr. Bengt Saltin at the University of Copenhagen, it was proven that runners that used hill workouts as a form of training had higher levels of aerobic enzymes in their quadriceps muscles. In other words, your muscles can work at a higher intensity for a longer period of time without feeling fatigued thanks to these enzymes" (1)
IF the quads must do that extra work or can do that extra work to run faster, then hill running is good, but on flat running, I do not feel that the quads especially needs to do that extra work. In hilly terrain, yes, absolutely
On the other side, experience is that training also on hilly routes are good for different reasons and runners adding hilly terrain seems to improve on flat. It is of course hard to pinpoint what kind of hills, intensity, and so on. We do not know specifically
(1):
https://www.womensrunning.com/training/reasons-for-hill-workouts/
Interesting stuff. I wonder if someone who struggles to get full activation in their posterior chain might benefit more from running hilly routes.
the bioshere in intricate: how original you POS wrote:
Hey Fumerbutt 96. I guess you need attention. Get a life you insecure POS with cheeswiz foreskin.
thanks for the chuckle mate
Charlesvdw wrote:
femurboy69 wrote:
Weekly elevation gain doesn't matter for running fast at any distance marathon and under. Hill sprints or hill reps are different but I dont even think they are necessary if supplemented correctly.
Sure. That's why every elite runner does some form of hill running.
True. I think the Ingebrigtsen 200m hill reps are a very visible example of hill work that is clearly effective. I just think that this staple session could probably be replicated without the hills. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't these hill sessions done at around lactate threshold. I think i remember watching one of the episodes of the Ingebrigtsen tv show and seeing Gjert testing there lactate level after every rep? I would think this stimulus could easily be replicated not on a hill.
Probably the best benefit of running hills is the improvement it has on form.