jeff tallon wrote:
I agree.its all very strange.I dont doubt hes a talent,but strange shoes,and epo together would make a dramatic improvement .
Well, he ran 2:39 at the Rio Games as a 28-year old. Seems like if he had a lot of talent it would have shown up long before now.
fxhjb2 wrote:
Well, he ran 2:39 at the Rio Games as a 28-year old. Seems like if he had a lot of talent it would have shown up long before now.
A lot of something can take 30 minutes off your marathon at 33.
Your claim is misleading. He ran 2:15:57 in 2016 prior to the super shoes, so I'll take that as a basis for calculating his real half marathon potential prior to super shoes. He averaged just under 1:08. In more recent years, he averaged 1:07:35 (2019 Valencia). If he already had the super shoes that year, then his improvement was not due to them. But if he could run a marathon averaging 1:07:35, he was already worth 1:04 at worst. The shoes could have been worth 6 minutes to him but probably he also had time to train much more as well.
Ghost1 wrote:
Man with marathon on of 2:15 runs a 2:09 should be the title.
You are absolutely correct but I’m also trying to find out in which year was the first time that he wore the super shoes - was it in 2016 or after?
Also, sorry for my forgetfulness but which year were the super shoes developed?[/quote]
I think that Rupp had use of the prototypes in Rio in 2016 but that they were spread more widely in 2017-18.
Thank you for the update.
abenb wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I am surprised at the typical resistance on these threads against the idea that athletes would dope to improve - when we already know that many do. It is the easiest way to get better results faster. For many athletes, success is everything.
I'm not surprised to see you accusing him of doping.
I guess he is not white/British Commonwealth/English speaking/pre-1990 enough for you to consider him clean.
I bet that he he was called Sebastian Snell, born in Australia in 1958 you would hail him as a real hardworking talent.
Race has nothing to do with it. I would bet Jesse Owens was clean. You don't know the difference between the world in 1958 and 2021. That's ok. You probably aren't old enough to remember anything before this century.
HRE wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I am surprised at the typical resistance on these threads against the idea that athletes would dope to improve - when we already know that many do. It is the easiest way to get better results faster. For many athletes, success is everything.
I doubt it's lack of resistance as much an idea that general decency requires not smearing someone with no more evidence than a surprisingly good performance. Would I be surprised to learn this guy is doping? Not at all. Do I see a reason to suggest he is? Not at all.
But some of us do.
Armstronglivs wrote:
HRE wrote:
I doubt it's lack of resistance as much an idea that general decency requires not smearing someone with no more evidence than a surprisingly good performance. Would I be surprised to learn this guy is doping? Not at all. Do I see a reason to suggest he is? Not at all.
But some of us do.
I doubt I'll ever see a reason to smear someone's integrity just because they've been more successful at something than I thought they could be.
HRE wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
But some of us do.
I doubt I'll ever see a reason to smear someone's integrity just because they've been more successful at something than I thought they could be.
Then you will never see doping.
Ghost1 wrote:
Jorge Castelblanco, A police officer in Panama city, Panama, and 2:09:49 Marathon runner is possibly now the fastest police officer in the world, not counting some of those Kenyan runners who run for the police service but rarely do any patrols. This guy is actually an active police officer.
Sounds about right. Ralf Salzmann from Germany probably had that title since the 80ies. 2:10:10 Tokyo 1988.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralf_SalzmannArmstronglivs wrote:
HRE wrote:
I doubt I'll ever see a reason to smear someone's integrity just because they've been more successful at something than I thought they could be.
Then you will never see doping.
Of course I will. That doesn't even make sense People get caught. I see that. And I probably am as suspicious generally as you are. I just think it's kind of indecent and arrogant to trot out those suspicions every time someone turns in a better performance than I expected because I understand that there are times my opinions will be wrong.
Look, every time I read a thread about an older athlete who turns in a really top level performance you're here going on about how suspicious it is, how the athlete is too old to run that fast, how it's too big an improvement relative to earlier performances, etc. What's your point? Do you really think that we here aren't aware of the possibility of that athlete doping? Do you somehow think that making the same point over and over and over on this board is somehow going to lessen the problem?
HRE wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Then you will never see doping.
Of course I will. That doesn't even make sense People get caught. I see that. And I probably am as suspicious generally as you are. I just think it's kind of indecent and arrogant to trot out those suspicions every time someone turns in a better performance than I expected because I understand that there are times my opinions will be wrong.
Look, every time I read a thread about an older athlete who turns in a really top level performance you're here going on about how suspicious it is, how the athlete is too old to run that fast, how it's too big an improvement relative to earlier performances, etc. What's your point? Do you really think that we here aren't aware of the possibility of that athlete doping? Do you somehow think that making the same point over and over and over on this board is somehow going to lessen the problem?
Not calling it certainly "lessens the problem". It becomes invisible.
Why are people even bothering to discuss a single bit of data about the effect of modern shoes, when thousands of people, including most of us, have ran times which should sufficiently determine the difference the shoes make. Even the name of the original super shoe more accurately determines their effect than this one, clearly flawed, anecdotal bit of data.
Thank you!!! I'm so sick of people talking about these shoes! He worked hard! Thats why he ran great!!
Assuming that someone in a position to do something about the doping problem, do you really believe you're helping the doping problem by endlessly repeating the same accusations while offering no supporting evidence? I think someone like that would have dismissed you as a crank long ago.
distancerunningwizard wrote:
Thank you!!! I'm so sick of people talking about these shoes! He worked hard! Thats why he ran great!!
You are right he deserves all the success he got. The point is the super shoes help runners maintain their speed in the marathon without significant microtrauma muscle breakdown and this means that marathon runners with best around 215 to 217 before the super shoes era are now able to get down to 210 or 209.
These shoes have been a big game changer. Derek Clayton, Bill Rodgers, Ron Hill, Frank Shorter, et. al would have probably been 2:05 marathon runners with those super shoes or even better.
This does not mean that the runners with super shoes are cheating but it does mean that they have a significant advantage compared to old time runners who ran with minimalist shoes. I remember a time in great Britain back in the 70s when British runners were running fast marathons in the 209 to 212 range basically in plimsoles which were little more than slippers and which gave your feet hardly any protection from the tarmac at all. Those shoes were little better than running bare feet. Tiger marathon Onitsuka, and Tiger Cubs.
Old style minimalist shoes. All the top guys were these kind of shoes in the 70s. Even me, modest club runner, at Hercules Wimbledon, ran the Finchley ‘20’ mile road race in 1978 with these shoes, my time: 1:50:49.
But I think he was running in the shoes in 2019. Now what makes improvement?
Ghost1 wrote:
Jorge Castelblanco, A police officer in Panama city, Panama, and 2:09:49 Marathon runner is possibly now the fastest police officer in the world, not counting some of those Kenyan runners who run for the police service but rarely do any patrols. This guy is actually an active police officer.
Joshua Cheptegei is the fastest police officer in the world.
kirkandorules wrote:
Ghost1 wrote:
Jorge Castelblanco, A police officer in Panama city, Panama, and 2:09:49 Marathon runner is possibly now the fastest police officer in the world, not counting some of those Kenyan runners who run for the police service but rarely do any patrols. This guy is actually an active police officer.
Joshua Cheptegei is the fastest police officer in the world.
You are right but I think he is off duty most of the time if not all the time. That is the usual deal in Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania. When I quote the Panamanian, I am referring to police officer athletes who are actually active duty most of the time.
Asbel Kiprop, after his doping ban was able to get back into the work routine at the police office precinct in Eldoret. Kiprop - The world’s leanest police officer perhaps?