Jakob is part of a new breed of runners. There is no kick to be run because he forces you to run 3:30 to beat him... so never
Jakob is part of a new breed of runners. There is no kick to be run because he forces you to run 3:30 to beat him... so never
g3wh wrote:
Ridiculous wrote:
LOL the Hocker knob slobbing needs to stop immediately. The answer is never. I’m not even a big fan of his, but Jakob is a medal contender in any distance 1500-10,000, Meanwhile, Hocker is going to struggle to even make the US team this June. The hype-beasting of this Oregon duo is ridiculous.
You using expressions like "knob slobbing" is ridiculous.
Its actually an under appreciated euphemism. I'm going to allow it.
stupidgetdumber wrote:
Jakob is part of a new breed of runners. There is no kick to be run because he forces you to run 3:30 to beat him... so never
0-7
Jakob vs Cheruiyot
Against the best athletes, kick matters.
......Against Europe's best, maybe not
Faaterer wrote:
stupidgetdumber wrote:
Jakob is part of a new breed of runners. There is no kick to be run because he forces you to run 3:30 to beat him... so never
0-7
Jakob vs Cheruiyot
Against the best athletes, kick matters.
......Against Europe's best, maybe not
It does, as Jakob has lost EC to Lewandowski, who has an impressive kick.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
think first wrote:
Why would you think that?
Both of them have 1:46 / 800m PBs.
Because the 800m is hardly an indication of "kick" ability given that you are basically running at maximum anaerobic threshold in the final lap of the race.
Better indication is to watch the NCAA and European indoor 3000m finals of this year. Yes Hocker is pushed all the way to the line and Jakob isn't - but there is a massive difference between 26.7 and 25.2 in the final 200m . You can even go back to Glasgow 2019 and the indoor 3000m which was a much more competitive race and Jakob runs 26.9 to close in a much slower (7.56) race.
Jakob is a form guy who can hold his form and stride length together and outlast guys. But Hocker does have some special tools that are unique - especially at this level of running. Again, is he better than a 3.28/7.27.0 runner? No of course not. But not every race is 3.28/7.27.0 and different abilities/talents can come into play.
Go time Jakob's final 200 in London when he ran 13:01
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
ShilohDoesntCare wrote:
I don't believe Hocker can run a 25 something last 200 in a fast race against the best guys in the world. He may prove me wrong but I won't believe that until I see it. Hocker has great potential but he would not come anywhere close in a 5000 right now and he'd need some big luck in a 1500. I do believe he'll get there and it won't take too long.
So lets apply some simply logic and process here (based on the original question which was Hocker vs Jakob).
4 x 400m relay - what does each guy split? For me, I see Jakob being a 49.2-49.5 guy. Hocker I think is a 48.2-48.5 guy - seeing him run 25.0 at the end of 7.46 3000m and the way he muscled his way to it says to me he has the kind of power to run a low 48 second 400m in a relay. Hey - either way both guys times aren't earth shattering, but....
Let's make up a hypothetical race, Cole vs Jakob and nobody can run faster than 90 seconds a lap for the first 1200m - who wins? I see no evidence to suggest Hocker doesn't. Same race, 75 seconds a lap? - still Hocker. I mean this dude already is a 3min50 miler which is only a few seconds behind Jakob - I would suggest that even at 60s a lap I would back Hocker to run faster in the last 300m than Jakob.
Now of course this is all theoretical. Massive gap in experience right now between the two so sure it would be tough. But my point is, if things fell into place with the speed of the race being dramatically slow in the first 1100m (which in pro championship races does can happen), it's not beyond realm of possibility that Hocker has the speed and the strength to rollover Jakob in the right circumstances.
Sorry, I'm struggling to follow your logic here...
"I see no evidence to suggest Hocker doesn't" - I also see no evidence to suggest Jakob doesn't.
Also, these hypothetical races you make up aren't going to "fall into place", because running is a sport, not a lottery. Jakob will never let that happen, because he is good enough to not let that happen. He will make a race too fast for Hocker and win.
You are talking now about the "God" Jacob and for bow he is at zero gold major title. Don't buy a fish before hunting it.
Jakob ran last 200m in 25.7 in London DL 5000m in 2019 to finish second with 13:02.03. His last 3000m was 7:47. So Jakob ran his last 3k almost exactly as fast as Hocker his 3k at NCAAs with almost exactly as fast last 200m.
i have a stopwatch too wrote:
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Because the 800m is hardly an indication of "kick" ability given that you are basically running at maximum anaerobic threshold in the final lap of the race.
Better indication is to watch the NCAA and European indoor 3000m finals of this year. Yes Hocker is pushed all the way to the line and Jakob isn't - but there is a massive difference between 26.7 and 25.2 in the final 200m . You can even go back to Glasgow 2019 and the indoor 3000m which was a much more competitive race and Jakob runs 26.9 to close in a much slower (7.56) race.
Jakob is a form guy who can hold his form and stride length together and outlast guys. But Hocker does have some special tools that are unique - especially at this level of running. Again, is he better than a 3.28/7.27.0 runner? No of course not. But not every race is 3.28/7.27.0 and different abilities/talents can come into play.
Go time Jakob's final 200 in London when he ran 13:01
Lol, wut.
Jakob has a 7:27 and 3:28 PR. Let's not give Jakob anymore motivation.
think first wrote:
Jakob ran last 200m in 25.7 in London DL 5000m in 2019 to finish second with 13:02.03.
His last 3000m was 7:47.
So Jakob ran his last 3k almost exactly as fast as Hocker his 3k at NCAAs with almost exactly as fast last 200m.
i have a stopwatch too wrote:
Go time Jakob's final 200 in London when he ran 13:01
Exactly. With 2000m before that.
Meanwhile, what did Hocker close his last 200 in his 5km this week? What was his final 3k time in that? Heck, what was his final 5km time?!
Honestly I'm not sure if Jakob would have even heard of this Hocker guy yet.
Metricer wrote:
think first wrote:
Jakob ran last 200m in 25.7 in London DL 5000m in 2019 to finish second with 13:02.03.
His last 3000m was 7:47.
So Jakob ran his last 3k almost exactly as fast as Hocker his 3k at NCAAs with almost exactly as fast last 200m.
Exactly. With 2000m before that.
Meanwhile, what did Hocker close his last 200 in his 5km this week? What was his final 3k time in that? Heck, what was his final 5km time?!
Honestly I'm not sure if Jakob would have even heard of this Hocker guy yet.[/quote]
He most likely hasn't, as Henrik Ingebrigtsen has said he has never heard of him a week ago.
cole is poised to maybe win ncaa, and is hot!!!
jacob is poised to win OG
there are different levels.
as in the difference between a 1245 5000m and a 1310 (whilch cole can probably do)
sure, if all goes right cole is going to make some noise on the big stage.
but, hold your horses, you deeeb learners.
Not a great example, the last 200 wasn't the thing with Jakob in the euro final. It was the last 1000m that was mind blowing. Anyhow it is too early to have this thread, Cole is not the problem. Jakob is amazing but hard to be always on form and he will have plenty to worry about aside from the mighty Tim C, lots of other classy Ugandans, Kenyans, Ethiopians and 3 hot Aussies to think on among others. He is plenty good enough to win a medal but for him it is by no means guaranteed imho. The 1500m seems stacked this year more than maybe any other in a long time.
` wrote:
Talk to me when Hocker runs 3:28 (or races actual pros). The disrespect is insane.
I'm glad this was the first comment on the whole thread. The hocker fanboys are getting delusional. I can somewhat understand trying to come for Centro, despite the fact that Centro literally outkicked Hocker a few months ago in arguably the worst shape of Centro's professional career, but now they're coming for someone who may be able to sneak in a few world records in the next 3-10 years? He has to beat USA's best and make it to at least the world finals before beimg able to be compared to Ingebrigtsen's worst day. This is getting old.
You need to lay off on the term "racist", and throwing it around so loosely as a keyboard warrior. My gut tells me you couldn't walk in to a bar, and call anyone a racist who actually warranted it if they said or did something that was legitimately, objectively racist. You would just bite your tongue and move along.
Geography is not a race. Is that clear to you? I have not followed this guy's posts, but like most people on here, you likely are throwing the term racist around without fully understanding what that implies. Showing preference toward athletes in one country over another does not make one racist. Having doubts about PED use with people that are citizens of a particular country with the highest level of drug test positives for PEDs in the world is not racist. That is actually just observing data objectively, and analyzing the information available from past performances to draw a conclusion.
Looks like Colie is considerably more fleet of foot over 400, so Jakob will not be able to hang with him once he gets a few more miles under his belt.
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I don´t know if you are trolling or if patroisism has made you blind for the facts!
First: I am almost as excited about Hocker as you and many other Americans (I am also excited about Teare, Fisher, Hobbs and Young).
I have in other threads stated that I consider Teare and Hocker the best milers in the US at the moment maintaining that the are the foremost favorites to qualify for the Olympics if they play their cards right the next 1.5 month.
Second: Hocker at 19 is nearing the level Jakob had at 17. Check Jakob´s PBs from 2018 in the 1500m and the 5000m.
And Jakob was already quite a fast finisher at 17 too. See the video from the 5000m final at the European Championships in 2018 where Jakob is frontrunning the last 1400m in 13:17. Last lap in 54 and last 200m in 26.5. HOCKER HAS NOT PROVEN HE CAN MATCH THAT!
And Jakob is MUCH better and faster today. So Hocker has to develop to becoming the best ever American middle and long distance runner to match Jakob.
No. Cole is a good american runner Jakob is world class possibly the best in the world they do not compare. I think Cole is in maybe 3:32 shape at best and Jakob can run 3:28 so not the same.
obviously jakob is better at all distances right now, but it will be interesting to see where jakob goes from here. he probably has more experience and professional training under his belt at 20 year old than most pros have in their mid to late 20s...is it possible he keeps improving or has he reached his physical limits already?
in roughly a year or so of "professional" caliber training hocker has improved immensely. you would think he certainly has more room for growth than jakob based on their histories, but he is also pretty far behind. excited to see how it plays out.
so, not anytime soon, but 2024 could be interesting imo. so many factors could come into play (including jakob getting married and potentially having a family by then). this could be peak jakob.
Not a great example, the last 200 wasn't the thing with Jakob in the euro final. It was the last 1000m that was mind blowing. Anyhow it is too early to have this thread, Cole is not the problem. Jakob is amazing but hard to be always on form and he will have plenty to worry about aside from the mighty Tim C, lots of other classy Ugandans, Kenyans, Ethiopians and 3 hot Aussies to think on among others. He is plenty good enough to win a medal but for him it is by no means guaranteed imho. The 1500m seems stacked this year more than maybe any other in a long time.
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I agree that Hocker hardly will be a problem for Jakob in the near future.
I, however, disagree that Jakob has a lot to worry about apart from Timothy.
I don´t think there are dangerous competitors in Uganda, Kenya and Ethiopia.
In Uganda Ronald Musagala had a good season in 2019 but he has shown nothing since then, I learned from another that he beat Chepegei narrowly in the 1500m in around 3:36 after Cheptegei had been frontrunning the first 1400m. So at the moment Uganda doesn´t seem to have any top runners.
Kenya have o my knowledge no top 1500m runners apart from Timothy.
Etiophia only has Tefera but I don´t think will be a threat to Jakob.
I don´t think any of the Australians can match Jakob either.
I think the English (Wightman and Kerr if he can find his 2019 shape) will be more dangerous.
Jakob ran the fastest 1500m indoors this year frontrunning he last 3 or 4 (200m) rounds despite he was coming almost directly from base training. So I think he is one more level up this year and if so, no other than Tim will have a chance to beat him.
Finally : 2021 might be the year where Jakob passes Timothy. Many people on these pages acts as things last for ever. Nothing is more wrong: Things are ever changing and Jakob´s might finally catch up with Timothy who didn´t look too convincing last season:
He did win narrowly twice over Jakob in the 1500 but then disappeared. When he came back in the last DL meet he was out of shape running a mediocre 800m.
Jakob ran the fastest indoors 1500m this season despite coming almost directly from base training so I think he will be one more level up this year