Is "Periodization" A Myth?

yes.

this is a really good thread.

I don’t periodize. Just alternate between workouts on a 16 day cycle year round. Maybe I’d be better with different training but this work for me. That said I wait until I’ve got a date marked before I’ll do anything faster than 10k pace...with the exception of 200’s which I do year round.

Salazar did a talk at NXN in 2012-2014 I can’t remember exactly, but you can find the video on runnerspace. He described that he didn’t do “periodization” like Lydriad. Instead, he does something close to what RunningArt described.

You work speed, threshold, long reps, long tempos all year, not every week, but on ~3-4 week cycles. One week you might run your long tempo hard, then do a slightly dialed back 400m repeat session. The following week you might run the tempo run easier than the previous week, but run the 400m repeat session very fast.

The point is you never completely stop training any one system, you just hit it with different intensities depending on the week. But you are allows working to improve all systems over the course of a training cycle (all-out speed, speed endurance, Vo2, threshold, long tempos).

+1.

There’s a pretty typical progression of base phase>precomp>comp.

Generally base is T and aerobic tempos, some 5k paced intervals, and hill sprints. There’s some variation, but this is pretty common.

Periodization says that somehow the next phase/block needs to be evolved upon. In the cases of mid distance runners, this involves the inclusion of race paced reps and a general increase in rep intensity. Last phase has an increase in volume of this more specific work until your taper.

Aerobic work sets up the ability to handle the load of a higher volume of anaerobic and race pace work. Without much aerobic base, you won’t be able to handle as much intervals, which are what have the most impact on performance for any event 5k and under.

Post-grad, I've pretty much used what you describe above. I am not as fast as in college (the schedule I described above in a previous post), but that's more due to the fact that I have a job and a family and my overall volume is down. That said, I cycle through each of the following workouts and then start the cycle over:

Mile repeats (usually 4-5 x 1 mile)

Aerobic progression run (40-45 minute, starting at easy run pace and finishing at CV)

Tempo intervals (12-20 x 400 w/ 100 rest)

Long run (varies from 60 min to 120 min based on what race I'm going for)

Tempo run (30 min always) + strides

Race preparation workout (4 x 600 if I'm doing 1 mile, 4 x 1 mile if I'm doing 5K, 3 x 2 mile if I'm doing 10K or longer)

Race or time trial (I race anything from mile to half marathon)

Sometimes, I can cycle through these workouts in 2 weeks. Other times, it's as many as 4 weeks. I fill the rest of the schedule in with easy runs and cycling, and I have found that I have an excellent multi-distance baseline that can easily shift into a 4-6 week peak at a given distance.

katdaddy wrote:

I took a look at the running logs of Bill Rodgers, Greg Meyer, and Steve Scott. Their training supports my theory. They were not doing "periodized" training and they didn't "taper." They trained the same year-round. High mileage, weekly long-runs without exception, intervals and hills every week but not super demanding, and they weren't afraid to race (used these as their real hard efforts).

The runners mentioned aboved trained and race in a different era (obviously). It's impossible to say whether or not that if they had made better use of periodization they might have run faster times.

Those guys did not have the luxury of being paid to periodize their training. Today's elites are paid to train in Flagstaff or Boulder and run a couple key races a year. Back in the dark ages, elites were paid to race. If the Bill Rodgerses, Greg Meyers, or Steve Scotts of the world wanted paid, they had to race and race often.

Okay, but you still get paid to race these days too. What makes you more money, doing a 10 mile tempo in Flagstaff or hopping in a race like say, the USATF 15k champs? I feel like US elites would benefit far more if they weren’t afraid to hop in road races like the elites of the 70’s and 80’s.

1. You improve your race tactics

2. You get “publicity”

3. You get paid, especially if you win

4. You get the same training effect, or more

5. You move the sport forward, create excitement among fans, people look forward to interesting match-ups, imagine seeing Jager vs Rupp in a road 10-mile or 8k or whatever, instead they are both doing long tempo workouts behind close doors saving up for one or two big appearances a year, it’s a shame

I'd be interested seeing distance runners put this into practice. Boo Schexynader does a similar set-up for his jumpers so no doubt it can work in the right setting.

When I was a younger coach I found that having too much variety in a single month didn't let my athletes grab onto something well enough to see the adaptation we wanted. Variety is great, but too much is very confusing for the body. What happens when a mile pace workout goes poorly and within a week you're already moving onto something new? Do you have to wait until the next month/cycle to revisit that workout?

Obviously that's taking things to an extreme and too literal (i.e. taking the coaching out of the equation and just following a rote formula), but I think there's still some parts that would concern me about athletes getting enough time to see a workout, figure it out, then gain enough experience with it to adapt with such a variable program. I do like that each week bleeds into one another so it's not just jumping around haphazardly, I'd just be interested in seeing it in action first hand.

I'm sorry but are you doing the same workout every week? You gotta have some progression to your workouts to keep the body adapting and getting better. Whether that's adjusting rest, interval length, pace or volume. Just because you had one bad workout doesn't mean you have to come back to the same one the following week.

This is an interesting thread.

BTC training has been posted on here before. They do one short speed and one long threshold workout each week. The short speed has a bit of progression throughout the season, same with the threshold work, but it seems to start lower volume and intensity at the beginning of the cycle and then after a few weeks they get up to a certain level or volume and intensity and just keep it there, changing the rep distance a bit from week to week. They only really hit a few super hero workouts before the races.

Listening to a few interviews with Hocker and Teare, they have mentioned that they think part of the reason that they are running so fast indoors is that they did track work during the fall. Doing some faster stuff when they would usually be in cross country season.

I think there is merit to some periodization. It seems like the best programs hit strength work and shorter speed work year round and then do some harder, more specific work in the few weeks leading up to a main race.

Exactly and use a similar approach as well. I usually just to hill repeats but have done the combo of hill repeats with track reps in the past. Then alternating a tempo run with cruise intervals each week and then the long run. You spend to much time in that specific phase you end up peaking early or not improving when you taper/sharpen up at the end of the season.

citius5000 wrote:

I'm sorry but are you doing the same workout every week? You gotta have some progression to your workouts to keep the body adapting and getting better. Whether that's adjusting rest, interval length, pace or volume. Just because you had one bad workout doesn't mean you have to come back to the same one the following week.

He’s not saying do the same session every week, but rather to create an adaptation you need to overstress an aspect of your training.

If you run a 4 mile threshold run and don’t run another threshold workout until 4 weeks later, would that improve threshold more than doing a threshold work once per week?

Likewise, when you get to the peak of your volume/intensity, do you want to be hitting race pace reps once a week, or once every 2-3 weeks?

Agreed

What it boils down to is that you are providing an overload stimulus for the body to adapt to. It adapts to better cope with that same stimulus. The adaptations are precise and specific. The question then becomes how often do I need to repeat a similar stimulus? For example, if I run 5 x 1mi w/3min rest this week can I repeat the workout in 4 weeks and see improvement in the workout itself? Say my key workouts from week 1 to week 4 are: Long Run 2hrs, 5 x 1/20min tempo, 10 x 800/20 x 400, Race Prep/Race 8k.

Just text on the screen *shrug*

Alan

Periodization is pseudoscience. It has no basis in physiology or clinical science.

The ideal way to train is to conduct all-out sessions of doing exactly what you do in competition, rest completely between sessions, and repeat.

A person training to run the 1500m, for example, doesn't ever have to run longer than 1500m to reach his genetic potential.

Jumbo Elliot got his guys far by doing 10x400 and 6x400 every week

If It Was You wrote:

I think there is merit to some periodization. It seems like the best programs hit strength work and shorter speed work year round and then do some harder, more specific work in the few weeks leading up to a main race.

I think this is the key point. Look at NAU's training for more confirmation. The key components to all of these great coaches' training (Smith, Thomas, Schumacher, Warhurst) is consistent short reps at speed (200s, 300s, 400s), either on the track or on hills (or a mix) and tempo work year round. The speed stuff can be anywhere from 1500 to 5k pace, but it's gotta be short reps and jogging rest. The tempo stuff can be cruise intervals or continuous tempos, lactate threshold or marathon pace, but it has a few common themes; 4-10 miles worth of work (10 being the upper end for 10k runners, 4 being the lower end for milers) at a comfortably hard pace. Then leading up to the big races for a season, do 1-2 interval workouts at specific paces to sharpen up, and you're good to go.

Nailed it.

I always find it hilarious when you hear runners or coaches say after early season races “and I haven’t even started speed work yet!”

My response, “well, you’re way behind then!”

The idea that you should save speed/turnover intervals until the last couple weeks is silly. That’s not enough time to really develop that system.

If you want to be able to close in a 55s 400 by June, then you better start doing some 200’s in 27-28s in December! You gotta allow time for progression, speed doesn’t magically come back in 4 weeks