italian courts are a joke.
look at amanda knox.
italian courts are a joke.
look at amanda knox.
rule readerr wrote:
hot weather shuffler wrote:
Your written English is amazing.
Deal with the substance.
Wow. That is the LAST thing you want anyone doing when it comes to EPO and steroids.
hot weather shuffler wrote:
rule readerr wrote:
Deal with the substance.
Wow. That is the LAST thing you want anyone doing when it comes to EPO and steroids.
Very good ?
Lamarcia.com has been covering the Schwazer case for a while, I would recommend going through his site to see all the details of the Schwazer conspiracy debacle.
One interesting thing that is somewhat related is Schwazer's possible connection to the Erik Tysse EPO case. It has been rumored in 2010 Erik Tysse had his sample tampered with and he fought a long case against WADA that ultimately did not pass. The race he tested positive was in Italy in the middle of a series of races. To my knowledge WADA refused to test the DNA of the samples and a number of experts testified the data didn't make sense. Two years later Schwazer gave his teary eyed press conference after testing positive for EPO.
During that period , however, Schwazer also had a connection Michele Ferrari in the in the period after the 2008 Olympics (when he gold in the 50km). A lot of dirty connection.
If anyone has anymore details it would be interesting to hear.
Yes, I respect a man who was not found guilty. Making a cheat doesn't make you a cheater for all your life. That's kind of a justicialist way of thinking, which no one who isn't really involved in and informed about a situation, can afford to have.
That's the truth.
If a judge is so sure of what he says, even knowing that he would have received a huge attack by international organisations, I sincerly take it into accountance (it does not even mean that I am sure Schwazer is a victim and other organisms the executioners)
aERSGDFH wrote:
Lamarcia.com has been covering the Schwazer case for a while, I would recommend going through his site to see all the details of the Schwazer conspiracy debacle.
One interesting thing that is somewhat related is Schwazer's possible connection to the Erik Tysse EPO case. It has been rumored in 2010 Erik Tysse had his sample tampered with and he fought a long case against WADA that ultimately did not pass. The race he tested positive was in Italy in the middle of a series of races. To my knowledge WADA refused to test the DNA of the samples and a number of experts testified the data didn't make sense. Two years later Schwazer gave his teary eyed press conference after testing positive for EPO.
During that period , however, Schwazer also had a connection Michele Ferrari in the in the period after the 2008 Olympics (when he gold in the 50km). A lot of dirty connection.
If anyone has anymore details it would be interesting to hear.
Wada labs are on a mission to catch dopers, by and large they do only Wada testing and utterly depend on Wada funding.
They are, thus , not scientifically independent.
If there is a criticism of their work they get other labs to come and say how wonderful they are.
If an other expert comes along they are undermined as not being from Doping control even though they have far more expertise in analysis and the instruments than the head of the labs.It is forgotten that Doping Control is only a small fraction of the work that the instruments are used for.
A positive is a positive and must be defended at all costs otherwise the system will collapse under the burden of having to defend each case.
Where in the real work is there an assumption that the lab will have done it’s work correctly and thus can’t be challenged.
Once you live in that world any result can appear.
I think it is this is what the Italian Court reported.
european miler wrote:
It's amazing how everyone is writing "this race walker" like he was a no one. He was a devastating talent, when he came back after the first ban he won with an amazing margin against some of the bests of the world in a prestigious meeting. He deserves respect: he cheated, he served his sentence, and then he raced (with "high rational credibility") without being on EPO.
You even have to remember that we are talking about someone who races 50K's, another reason to respect him as his contenders
Surely he's still benefitting from the increased training he was able to do while on EPO and that's why he's able to perform so well without it?!
British Guy wrote:
european miler wrote:
It's amazing how everyone is writing "this race walker" like he was a no one. He was a devastating talent, when he came back after the first ban he won with an amazing margin against some of the bests of the world in a prestigious meeting. He deserves respect: he cheated, he served his sentence, and then he raced (with "high rational credibility") without being on EPO.
You even have to remember that we are talking about someone who races 50K's, another reason to respect him as his contenders
Surely he's still benefitting from the increased training he was able to do while on EPO and that's why he's able to perform so well without it?!
What has this to do with what the Court said?
You clearly don't know that EPO gains have an effect in a period of weeks. Even if he got two years of exceedingly-good training in 2011-12 it has nothing to do with his form in 2016.
Or, if you think that, you clearly should attack some scientific articles proofing with great evidence that what you say is correct.
For all those who are blubbering.... the prosecution asked for charges to be dropped. The judge noticed that the "non-transparent" WADA behaviour points to manipulation of the sample and attempt of a cover-up. Remember that if you dope in Italy you make jail time, so the process is serious.
Also it seems a bit rich to say Italian courts are a joke... compared to what? US?
KAV wrote:
For all those who are blubbering.... the prosecution asked for charges to be dropped. The judge noticed that the "non-transparent" WADA behaviour points to manipulation of the sample and attempt of a cover-up. Remember that if you dope in Italy you make jail time, so the process is serious.
Also it seems a bit rich to say Italian courts are a joke... compared to what? US?
Exactly ; and now let’s think what this means for WADA prosecutions.
Can they depend on their own rules that the lab is always correct?
rojo wrote:
Why in the world would anyone bother to frame a race walker?
While I may be sympathetic with your take that an EPO doper should be banned for life; according to the rules he paid his dues and this is not the point here.
If you were a journalist you may want to investigate a bit more this case: there is a ton of material on this case online. As "Italian here" briefly summarized, there were actually a lot of very good reason for framing him as he tried to bring down a big chunk of the "system" in Italy by cooperating with the justices rather than just deny and suck it up; some of these people were caught on tape saying that they would have made him pay dearly.
Also, why on earth a race walker would dope on steroids?
mid D guy wrote:
rojo wrote:
Why in the world would anyone bother to frame a race walker?
While I may be sympathetic with your take that an EPO doper should be banned for life; according to the rules he paid his dues and this is not the point here.
If you were a journalist you may want to investigate a bit more this case: there is a ton of material on this case online. As "Italian here" briefly summarized, there were actually a lot of very good reason for framing him as he tried to bring down a big chunk of the "system" in Italy by cooperating with the justices rather than just deny and suck it up; some of these people were caught on tape saying that they would have made him pay dearly.
Also, why on earth a race walker would dope on steroids?
There may be reasons ie recovery.
What strikes me it that it easy to get a false positive in the lab by getting contamination with the standard for the steroid that is run.
mid D guy wrote:
While I may be sympathetic with your take that an EPO doper should be banned for life; according to the rules he paid his dues and this is not the point here.
Actually he still has to pay his dues, as he is currently banned.
mid D guy wrote:
Also, why on earth a race walker would dope on steroids?
Wasn't his doping orchestrated by Ferrari for a while? That means EPO/roids/HGH and co, the complete cocktail.
Steroids in distance events is not that unusual, for strength and injury protection, see also Salazar, Baumann, Decker, Jacobs, Kisorio, ...
KAV wrote:
Remember that if you dope in Italy you make jail time, so the process is serious.
not really
Cant forget Schwazer's drug use got his ex girlfriend, figure skater Carolina Kostner banned for 16 months. might have been shortened by the AIU.
mid D guy wrote:
Also, why on earth a race walker would dope on steroids?
Anabolic steroids are very potent androgens that improve & accelerate protein synthesis, reduce cortisol levels and prevent injuries that are the result of stress placed on the muscles from training/overtraining.
Many elite race walkers are known for brutal workouts & high mileage which breaks them down over time. Low-dose steroids aid in protein synthesis and recovery. The massive bodybuilders out there use multiple exceptionally high-dose steroids and do nothing but lift therefore creating the massive bulk we see. Endurance athletes who are doping with steroids would use only very low doses and generally just one steroid as part of their regularly training program.
The key point of this thread is that WADA’s self certified world has been exposed by “proper law” and will never be the same again.
You can’t have labs saying that it is deemed given that they don’t make mistakes.
Everybody who admits is a EPO cheat is an HERO. And if also talks about how the doping system works between atlethes paving the road for a cleaner sport is double time hero..
We can fight Mafia thanks to the Repentant of the Mafia. I dont care if you are sincere doing so or if you do it just to a have a reduction of your sentence.
In Cycling if everybody would have been in SILENCE , probably we still celebrate Lance Armstrong
as a 7 time Tour de France winner.
There's a big silence in road running and track and field I hope one day it will be break, and things will change for better.
Bluesky wrote:
Everybody who admits is a EPO cheat is an HERO. And if also talks about how the doping system works between atlethes paving the road for a cleaner sport is double time hero..
We can fight Mafia thanks to the Repentant of the Mafia. I dont care if you are sincere doing so or if you do it just to a have a reduction of your sentence.
In Cycling if everybody would have been in SILENCE , probably we still celebrate Lance Armstrong
as a 7 time Tour de France winner.
There's a big silence in road running and track and field I hope one day it will be break, and things will change for better.
You won’t crack this problem if the control systems are shown to be corrupt.
We have had intense drug use for half a century and will for the next half.
We have contact sports about to be sued to death due to manifest brain injuries and early death.
The athletes from 50 yrs ago are still fine and most prob back on the drugs to keep them healthy.
If the controllers can’t be trusted is there a need for them?