What is the minimum raw speed of a 400m for a 4:15-4:20 mile?

I would think that 57 or 58 seconds would be the ball park minimum. And if that's the case, then a five mile tempo should feel comfortable at 5:15-20 pace. After all, you can't just look at one variable and say, "you ran 58, you could be a 4:20 miler!" But, if you are on the slower side at the 400, but have a big engine, then sure.

At least 52. Good luck otherwise.

On a speed scale of 0-11, I think you need to be at least a 7.

saved bell wrote:

Absolutely real. He split 60 several times in the 4x4. His 2:04 800 was fresh and he still only split 60 two hours later. Sorry to disappoint you but some guys have no speed. He struggled to run more than 4 x 400 at 65 in practice too.

And these races were like 5 days before the 1600 right? And like I thought he never ran a 400m seriously. The people with poor 400ms are pretty much always either workouts (I can't break 60. I did 8x400 in 64 and the last one all out and I could only run a 60) or some relay time in a race that wasn't taken remotely seriously.

And of course the crazy endurance also never shows up in their primary events that they run seriously. For some reason the incredible endurance these guys have from 400m to 1600m never gives them incredible endurance from 1600m to 5k/10k. Instead you get the same rough results that everyone else does.

If we're talking about college / post college guys with well developed aerobic engines, then the 6 second per lap rule might apply. For almost all high school kids I've ever encountered, it's probably more like 54 seconds in the 400 to run under 4:20 in the mile.

Around here, there aren't that many guys that run under 4:20. Maybe in our part of the section we get 1-2 per year. Those guys always end up on a 4x4 and split 50-52. Granted, we are not in an area where there is a huge distance running hotbed, but sub 4:20 guys around here are always pretty FAST

CoachB wrote:

If we're talking about college / post college guys with well developed aerobic engines, then the 6 second per lap rule might apply. For almost all high school kids I've ever encountered, it's probably more like 54 seconds in the 400 to run under 4:20 in the mile.

Around here, there aren't that many guys that run under 4:20. Maybe in our part of the section we get 1-2 per year. Those guys always end up on a 4x4 and split 50-52. Granted, we are not in an area where there is a huge distance running hotbed, but sub 4:20 guys around here are always pretty FAST

Didn't you wonder about the "HS runner" that his 'coach' claimed to have run 60-2:04-4:18-9:10? Then claiming the guy ran several 4 x 4s at 60 sec.

Maybe the HS has 100 students.

Even then, how does one run 60-2:04-4:18 and not break 9?

I could believe 60-2:04-4:28, but then the 9:10 looks unusual.

Minimum? Sub-60. However, for your average distance runner, you’re gonna need at least a 54. There are always exceptions, but I’ve met a lot of sub-4:20 milers and the vast majority of them could run at least 54, many faster.

Surely he could have run faster in the 400m given the opportunity

It depends mostly on how well you are developed aerobically. If you can run a 400 at 55 good for you. But if you don't have the engine to run 3 more laps, forget about.

400 speed is important. However if you are fast twitch and don't develop your aerobic engine your 400 pr doesn't mean squat. My two cents.

Minimum speed: low 57

Realistic speed: low 54

I doubt it. Maybe a 59 split if completely fresh but not from the gun. We have had 9 guys go sub 4:20 during my tenure over the past 5 years. The fastest 4x4 split was 52 and he ran 4:12 and the slowest was 60 and he ran 4:18. The average was probably 56 which would be 8 seconds under 64. None of the 9 guys made the 4x4 team.

I ran 3:59 1500 (~4:18 mile equivalent) with a 400m relay split pr of 58 seconds.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

saved bell wrote:

I coach HS track. He didn't ask what us typical but what is the minimum. I had a guy 2 tears ago go 60-2:04-4:18-9:10

No, you didn't. I was as strong as it gets, and I managed 60,2;08,4:30 and 9:28.

A 4:20 guy needs about 54ish speed.

You are thinking about 16 to 21 year old males. Women 1500m/milers in 4:15 to 4:20 one mile range obviously do not need sub-57 400m personal best to race 4:15 to 4:20.

Yu were not stron at all. How fast do you think Salazer ran a 400? How fast did he run a mile? The minimum 400 time to run 4:20 is 60 seconds. There are college guys who run close to 4 minutes who only run 54.

For what it's worth, I ran a 4:18 mile, but never broke 2:00 for 800 and couldn't get close to 9:00 for 3200. I had mediocre speed and not much endurance. I was just built for the mile.

I’m chilling around 53-54 open 400m speed and I absolutely don’t feel like my speed is my limiting factor in the mile.

64s arent even activating my sprint mechanism (not sure what the right phrasing is for it, but that feeling you get in your muscles and you say “okay I’m sprinting now”)

And I’m sitting at about 4:25 rn. I think 56 with solid endurance (think like mid to low 15s 5k) can do it.

It all depends on the athlete IMO. I’d say it’s like this:

3K and up specialist: 57.5

True 800-Mile type runner: 55

Speed based 800 runner: 52.5

And this is with the proper endurance training as well.

Moron#3 wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

No, you didn't. I was as strong as it gets, and I managed 60,2;08,4:30 and 9:28.

A 4:20 guy needs about 54ish speed.

You are incorrect. Please escape your narcissism here. You do not need to run 54 to run 4:20z

+1. I've also seen it. Like he said, he didn't ask what was common or typical, he asked minimum. And kids with 60 flat 400 times running sub 4:20 has happened.

In my experience, its somebody who can't get onto their toes at any speed, they run heel toe running that 60 flat 400m. I had a teammate in college like this. 60 flat 400m, sub 420 in the mile, sub 15 in the 5000m, sub 31 for 10000m. He seriously couldn't sprint to save his life. From 400m down, he had no difference in speed, just a weird heel-toe shuffle as fast as he could.

For 95% of serious trained runners, to run under 4:20 you really need to be able to run 54. Yes 5% of serious trained runners could run under 4:20 and be slower than 54, but if you look at those cases, it takes massive endurance and years and years of mega mileage. For example Nate Jenkins ran 4:12 and is only a 57 guy, but that 4:12 came after 10 years straight of 100 plus mpw. For the typical HS or college runner who is not doing mega miles, they can forget about breaking 4:20 unless they can at least run a 54 400.

Not true. You have already been provided examples f guy who ran 60 seconds and 4:20 which was what the OP was asking. Furthermore, Only 2 of the last 9 guys to go under 4:20 at my high school could run 54 or better.