I appreciate all the responses. Yes, Tinmans philosophy plays a big part in my training. Also, the 5k time trial was done on a track. All sessions this week felt controlled as they should do at the start of any training block.
I appreciate all the responses. Yes, Tinmans philosophy plays a big part in my training. Also, the 5k time trial was done on a track. All sessions this week felt controlled as they should do at the start of any training block.
TRun wrote:
I appreciate all the responses. Yes, Tinmans philosophy plays a big part in my training. Also, the 5k time trial was done on a track. All sessions this week felt controlled as they should do at the start of any training block.
Well, if it works for you.
I wasn't saying running 8 min miles is the way to go, I was simply saying that I know a runner who runs his easy runs almost exclusively at 5:00/km at has a prs around 14 flat. Also, there are pros/collegiate guys on strava with 13 min 5ks who run pretty slowly on their easy runs too (4:30 ish) You can find them with a bit of looking. The point is, easy run pace varies from athlete to athlete, and running at 4:30/km like the OP has isn't really limiting his performance. Personally, I run mine a bit faster, around 4:10, but I don't think easy run pace is such a huge deal.
Anyways, if you want my training before I went sub 15, I'll give you my weekly mileage and the workouts, because it would be long to go day by day. I ran 6 days a week, usually 2-3 doubles with 2 workouts and a LR, easy runs were from 4:00 to 4:30 ish pace. The LR was around 18-22km at 4:00, and I stopped doing it after week 9. Here it is:
Week 1: 83km, 12km tempo @ 3:35/km and a Fartlek 20x(45"/75")
Week2: 105km, 8k @ 3:23/km and 6x1k in 2:58/3' rest
Week 3: 78km, 6k @ 3:19/km and a Solo 5k road TT in 15:41
Week 4:111km, 3x10min @ 3:23/1' rest and 3x5x300m in 49/40s rest -4' set rest
Week5:102km, 6x1k in 3:13 90s rest and Solo 10k TT in 31:57
Week 6:54 km, some foot problems, 1 workout was a Hilly Fartlek
Week 7: 64km, 10x500 in 1:25/1:15 rest and a hilly fartlek
Week 8: 97km, one workout: 3x(500-400-300) in 1:20-62-46 with 2' min rest, 4 min set rest, lingering foot stuff
Week 9: 103km, 2x7x200m in 31 r:25s/4 min and 5x1k in 2:53 r:3' + 3x500 in 1:17 r:3' + a sprint workout
Week 10: 72km 8x400 in 68 r:1' and a Solo 1500 TT in 4:03
Week 11: 103km 3 workouts: 5x200 in 26 r:6', 2x5x400m in 64 r:90s/5' and 10x200m in 29 r:3'
Week 12: 76km 3 workouts:4x400m in 64, Solo 1500m TT in 4:01 and 5x1000m in 3:06 r:75s
Week 13: 53km, 1200m in 3:14 + 3x100m in 14s and a 1500m race in 4:00
Week 14: 70km, 3 workouts: 8x500 in 1:18 r:2:30, 1k-1.6k-1.2k-1.6k-1.k @ 2:55/km with 3' rest and 4x400 in 62 r2'
Week 15: 50km 2 races: 1500m in 3:55 and 3000m in 8:38
Week 16: 35km 5x1km in 2:55 r:3' + 5km race in 14:40
There, that took a while lol!! I realize I did my 8k @ 3:23 tempo was done way more than a month before the sub 15, but still - if the op has a good build then there's no reason he shouldn't get under 15.
lolollol wrote:
I wasn't saying running 8 min miles is the way to go, I was simply saying that I know a runner who runs his easy runs almost exclusively at 5:00/km at has a prs around 14 flat. Also, there are pros/collegiate guys on strava with 13 min 5ks who run pretty slowly on their easy runs too (4:30 ish) You can find them with a bit of looking. The point is, easy run pace varies from athlete to athlete, and running at 4:30/km like the OP has isn't really limiting his performance. Personally, I run mine a bit faster, around 4:10, but I don't think easy run pace is such a huge deal.
Anyways, if you want my training before I went sub 15, I'll give you my weekly mileage and the workouts, because it would be long to go day by day. I ran 6 days a week, usually 2-3 doubles with 2 workouts and a LR, easy runs were from 4:00 to 4:30 ish pace. The LR was around 18-22km at 4:00, and I stopped doing it after week 9. Here it is:
Week 1: 83km, 12km tempo @ 3:35/km and a Fartlek 20x(45"/75")
Week2: 105km, 8k @ 3:23/km and 6x1k in 2:58/3' rest
Week 3: 78km, 6k @ 3:19/km and a Solo 5k road TT in 15:41
Week 4:111km, 3x10min @ 3:23/1' rest and 3x5x300m in 49/40s rest -4' set rest
Week5:102km, 6x1k in 3:13 90s rest and Solo 10k TT in 31:57
Week 6:54 km, some foot problems, 1 workout was a Hilly Fartlek
Week 7: 64km, 10x500 in 1:25/1:15 rest and a hilly fartlek
Week 8: 97km, one workout: 3x(500-400-300) in 1:20-62-46 with 2' min rest, 4 min set rest, lingering foot stuff
Week 9: 103km, 2x7x200m in 31 r:25s/4 min and 5x1k in 2:53 r:3' + 3x500 in 1:17 r:3' + a sprint workout
Week 10: 72km 8x400 in 68 r:1' and a Solo 1500 TT in 4:03
Week 11: 103km 3 workouts: 5x200 in 26 r:6', 2x5x400m in 64 r:90s/5' and 10x200m in 29 r:3'
Week 12: 76km 3 workouts:4x400m in 64, Solo 1500m TT in 4:01 and 5x1000m in 3:06 r:75s
Week 13: 53km, 1200m in 3:14 + 3x100m in 14s and a 1500m race in 4:00
Week 14: 70km, 3 workouts: 8x500 in 1:18 r:2:30, 1k-1.6k-1.2k-1.6k-1.k @ 2:55/km with 3' rest and 4x400 in 62 r2'
Week 15: 50km 2 races: 1500m in 3:55 and 3000m in 8:38
Week 16: 35km 5x1km in 2:55 r:3' + 5km race in 14:40
There, that took a while lol!! I realize I did my 8k @ 3:23 tempo was done way more than a month before the sub 15, but still - if the op has a good build then there's no reason he shouldn't get under 15.
Week2: 105km, 8k @ 3:23/km and 6x1k in 2:58/3' rest
Week 3: 78km, 6k @ 3:19/km and a Solo 5k road TT in 15:41
I feel this supports my statements. That 1k workout looks sharper than TRun's, and you ran 15:41 for 5k. Yes, he only rested 90 sec.
Week5:102km, 6x1k in 3:13 90s rest and Solo 10k TT in 31:57
There you did his workout and only ran 31:57.
Week 7: 64km, 10x500 in 1:25/1:15 rest and a hilly fartlek
This is good. Do you believe TRun could do this?
Week 8: 97km, one workout: 3x(500-400-300) in 1:20-62-46 with 2' min rest, 4 min set rest, lingering foot stuff
Another good workout. This is what I'm sayin'
Week 9: 103km, 2x7x200m in 31 r:25s/4 min and 5x1k in 2:53 r:3' + 3x500 in 1:17 r:3' + a sprint workout
Week 10: 72km 8x400 in 68 r:1' and a Solo 1500 TT in 4:03
Here we go!
Week 11: 103km 3 workouts: 5x200 in 26 r:6', 2x5x400m in 64 r:90s/5' and 10x200m in 29 r:3'
Week 12: 76km 3 workouts:4x400m in 64, Solo 1500m TT in 4:01 and 5x1000m in 3:06 r:75s
Week 13: 53km, 1200m in 3:14 + 3x100m in 14s and a 1500m race in 4:00
See?
Week 15: 50km 2 races: 1500m in 3:55 and 3000m in 8:38
Drum roll, please.
These workouts and races are night and day from what you were doing earlier, and what TRun is doing, so unless he can ramp it up, I don't see the recipe for success.
When I was running road races around 28-29 years old, I did 6-7 months of 100 mile weeks and everything is sub 6. If I want to run fast in a run, it is 10 miles under 53 (51:28 was my fastest) and 15 miles in 5:15 per mile.
When I was in college, couple of miler friends of mine, one who did run 5k a few years later, did a 15 miler in a workout at 5:20 mile.
Thom Hunt was on a 8-9 miler, by coincidence I saw the group running when I was starting, but they were in the last 2 miles so I only did that much with them. It was a weekly run at about 5:20 a mile.
I warmed up at 6 min/mile for 3 miles when I was a sophomore in HS before running the 2 mile in the district meet.
This slow stuff doesn't get it done in my book.
He's at the beginning of his training cycle. If he continues to progress his workouts, and he says the early stuff was controlled for him, then there's no reason that he can follow something close to my progression from that season. I do get what you're saying regarding workout intensity increasing, and obviously it should, however I think it's unfair to the OP to knock his goals just by looking at his first week of training. I started at the same point he was at and ultimately achieved his goals.
The 15:41 and 31:57 TTs were also done in pretty unfavourable conditions, ie: Roads, Very Hot, 100% alone ... So they're to be taken with that in mind.
Your training looks really impressive btw - definitely different from my current coach's stuff but I'm always interested in learning ! You mind sharing some season overviews for your better 5ks or 1500s?
TRun wrote:
Bit of background. I’m 19 years old (male). I coach myself and have done since I started running years ago. I ran 15.11 in a 5k time trial a few weeks ago then took a break and this is my fourth week back. None of my family run and not many of my friends run so if I just stopped training nobody would even notice. Lonely sport! I’m hoping to run sub 14.40 and sub 31 this year. If nobody reads this it’s no problem. I just want a place to post my training and maybe help others.
Monday:
AM- 12km easy @ 4:34/ km
PM-8km easy @ 4:37/km + 5x100m strides
Pushups + Core
Tuesday:
AM- 4km w/u @ 4:43/km, 7x1km reps @ CV Pace w/ 90 secs rest (3.14, 3.13, 3.13, 3.13, 3.15, 3.13, 3.13), 5x200m w/90 secs rest (31, 33, 32, 32, 32). 4km c/d @ 4:38/km
PM: 4km treadmill shakeout @ 5:00/km
Pushups + Core
Wednesday:
AM- 12km easy @ 4:29/km
PM-8km easy @ 4:43/km
Pushups + Core
Thursday:
17km moderate long run @ 4:29/km
4x120m hill sprints + 2x100m strides
Pushups + Core
Friday:
4.7km w/u @ 4:34/km, 8km threshold (3:21/km avg). Felt great! 5x200m w/90 secs rest (32, 31, 30, 31, 31). 4km c/d @ 4:25/ km.
Pushups + Core
Saturday:
12km easy @ 4:28/km
Strength routine (hips, calves, quads, IT band etc.)
Sunday-
24km LR @ 4:10/km avg. w/ last 2km tempo (3:38, 3:40). Hilly course. Entered the pain cave a bit!
Pushups + Core
Bump up the medium run on Thurs and the Sunday long run. This will serve you well as far as aerobic development and being stronger at the end of races. No reason your Sunday long run shouldn’t be 30k, at least.
I think he’s just doing base right now, I agree he should do some harder and faster stuff, but that doesn’t need to be done year round imo. Build up to it with a base first
lolollol wrote:
He's at the beginning of his training cycle. If he continues to progress his workouts, and he says the early stuff was controlled for him, then there's no reason that he can follow something close to my progression from that season. I do get what you're saying regarding workout intensity increasing, and obviously it should, however I think it's unfair to the OP to knock his goals just by looking at his first week of training. I started at the same point he was at and ultimately achieved his goals.
The 15:41 and 31:57 TTs were also done in pretty unfavourable conditions, ie: Roads, Very Hot, 100% alone ... So they're to be taken with that in mind.
Your training looks really impressive btw - definitely different from my current coach's stuff but I'm always interested in learning ! You mind sharing some season overviews for your better 5ks or 1500s?
I did that long training between 28-29 years of age because there were there were few track meets available to me then, just road races. Otherwise, my training was a series of getting into racing shape, getting injured (turned out I had a structural defect), backing off a bit, then starting over. For example, I ran 48.6 relay split in training shoes on a dirt track at 26 years of age, but struggled to run 51 just 2 years later. Was at a track camp a year later, and the coach thought I would be 1:53 in the 800m within 3 weeks, but got injured. I ran 1 1/2 miles in 6:37, going though the mile in 4:22. I then focused more on distance runs for a couple of years, ran electricity through my hip 3 times in a couple of weeks, and got back in 1:53 shape (ran this measured). With track meets coming up in a couple of weeks, I got plantar fasciitis and that was it. Turns out I was straining to overcome my structural issue, and so this last injury was it for being fast. It is true that I ran 2:03 800m TT and 54.0 TT (by myself in racing flats) when 34 years old, but that didn't mean much.
When I was running distance at ages 28-29. I ran 30:12 for 10k at that time on a flat course: 9:20 at 2, 14:08 at 3, 18:50 at 4, then cruised in.
My job didn't allow for regular training routines except for a month or two at a time, but I did have the good fortune of decent training partners when I was 'in town', so to speak.
At that time, I got in shape to run 14:30 for 5k, and my fav race was the 3rd leg of an ekiden that went up a mountain road for 3 legs, then down for 3 legs. I was about 14:45 through 5k of a 6k leg, and had opened up a lead after getting the baton in the pack. It was mostly a gentle uphill grade until the rather steep last 800m, and our team got 3rd.
Here’s this weeks training. I thought last weeks workouts went well so I just wanted to build on them by adding a bit more volume while keeping the same pace. The sessions again felt relatively controlled. I’ll be doing a 5k time trial in a few weeks which will show me where I’m at. Happy with another solid weeks training.
Monday-
AM: 12 km easy @ 4.18/km,
PM: 8km easy @ 4:46/km + 3 x 100m strides. Felt nauseous on second run.
Pushups + core
Tuesday-
AM: 4km w/u @4:35/km, 8x1200m @ CV Pace on bike path. (3.51, 3.54, 3.50, 3.51, 3.48, 3.52, 3.49, 3.50) (3:11/km avg pace). 90 secs recovery between reps. Then 6x200m w/ 60 secs rec (31,33,31,33,32,33) 3.1km c/d @ 4:39/km.
PM: 4km easy on treadmill a 5’00/km
Pushups + core
Wednesday-
AM: 12km easy @ 4:24/km
PM: 8km easy @ 4.39/km
Pushups + core
Thursday-
16.5km MLR @ 4.24/km. Then 4x100mhill sprints + 1 flat 100m stride.
Pushups + Core
Friday-
4.1km w/u @ 4:42/km, 10km threshold (3.19/km avg), 5x200m w/ 90 secs rest (32,33,30,30,30), 3.4km c/d.
Pushups + core
Saturday-
12km easy @ 4:37/km.
Light S&C work- calves, quads, hips, IT band
Sunday-
22.6km LR with 5x1min on/off at the end. 4:09/km avg pace for whole run. Mins on were done between 3:19/km and 2:58/km, 400m jog back to car.
Pushups + core
Total: 135km (84 miles)
I liked Friday's workout.
Tuesday's is okay because of Friday.
Some people can do such workouts as Tuesday's without feeling devoid of inspiration, but I am not one of those people.
I'm not in to long runs anymore, yet Sunday's looks solid.
Last weeks training. The plan was to begin to add some 5k paced work. I also started back at college (online) after Christmas break so I wanted to manage time wise and try to keep the same mileage.
Monday:
AM- 12km easy @ 4:34/ km
PM-8km easy @ 4:37/km + 5x100m strides
Pushups + Core
Tuesday:
AM- 4km shakeout @ 4:31/km
PM- 4km w/u @ 4:39/km. 3km @ threshold - 3.20/km, 2mins rest, 2km @ CV- 3:11/km, 2mins, 2km @ 5k pace -3:01/km, 4 mins rest, 5x200m w/90secs rest (32,31,31,31,31) 3.7km c/d @ 4:48/km
Pushups + Core
Wednesday:
AM- 8km easy @ 4:30/km
PM-12km easy @ 4:41/km
Pushups + Core
Thursday:
17km moderate long run @ 4:21/km
5x120m hill sprints + 1x100m strides
Pushups + Core
Friday:
AM: 4km shakeout @ 4:29/km
PM: 4km w/u @ 4:28/km, 7x1k @ 5k pace w/2mins rest (planned to do 6 but they felt really good so added one more) 2.59, 2.59, 2.59, 2.59, 2.59, 2.58, 2.58. Felt great! 6x200m w/90 secs rest except for last one where I changed into spikes so 3 mins rest (29, 30, 29, 30, 28, 27). 3km c/d @ 4:38/km
Pushups
Saturday:
12km easy @ 4:32/km
Strength routine (hips, calves, quads, IT band etc.)
Sunday-
24km LR @ 4:11/km avg. w/ last 2km tempo (3:35, 3:24).
Pushups + Core
Total mileage: 137km (85 miles)
Sorry last weeks long run was actually 23km not 24km
On path for your sub 14:40 and sub 31.
Bump
You run way too much. I first broke 14:40 when doing 30 MPW.
Your training looks great! I wouldn’t be too surprised if you broke 15 right now.
Bump
Monday:
AM- 12km easy @ 4:28/km
PM-8km easy @ 4:40/km + 5x100m strides
Pushups + Core
Tuesday:
AM- 4km w/u @ 4:43/km, 4x2km reps @ CV Pace w/ 60 secs rest (6:20, 6:21, 6:19, 6.:20), 5x200m w/75 secs rest (31, 30, 31, 30, 31). 3km c/d @5:04/km. This session felt great. I felt strong even with the short rest.
PM: 4km treadmill shakeout @ 5:00/km
Pushups + Core
Wednesday:
AM- 8km easy @ 4:18/km
PM-12km easy @ 4:35/km
Pushups + Core
Thursday:
16.5km MLR @ 4:20/km.
4xhill sprints + 2xstrides after.
Pushups + core
Friday:
AM: 3km shakeout @ 4:24/km
PM: 4km w/u @ 4:30/km, 4xmile @ 5k pace w/90 secs rest (4:50, 4:50, 4:49, 4:49), then after 4x400m w/ 90secs rest (66,67,67,66) . 2km c/d @ 4:49 km. Not happy with this session. For the most part I hit my splits but I didn’t feel good doing it. Weather was bad which didn’t help either.
Pushups
Saturday:
12km easy @ 4:34/km
Strength routine (hips, calves, quads, IT band etc.)
Sunday:
23km LR. 4:18/km avg. Nothing special just putting the miles in.
Pushups + core
Weekly total: 133km (82 miles)
5k time trial soon
Also, to the poster who said they broke 14.40 on 30mpw you must have the talent to be a world class athlete or else you’re a troll. And clac and coach B thanks for your feedback. Hopefully I’ll be sub 15 during my time trial.
I do better on low mileage. I did run faster at 40 MPW than 30, but not enough to make it worth the risk. 14:40 is good enough to win most road races. Anytime that I bumped up to 45 MPW, I would get some type of injury.