Easy runs make you fast?

Also, I have done this over a series of years and I should have mentioned this. There would be months on end where I would run more workouts and less mileage, more workouts and more mileage, less workouts and less mileage, etc. I also find that cycling strength training (heavy weights, 4-6 reps a set for 3 sets) and occasional hill sprint training fits in well for a few months of the year. Basically, my training is diverse in the span of years, but during a “block” it is much the same for continuous months.

Been reading a lot about Bill Rodgers recently. Question - assuming someone does crazy high mileage like he did, would those 100+ weeks alone be enough to run consistent marathon PRs assuming one can stay healthy?

Or does one need to run at least 10% of weekly mileage at those faster gears to unlock the full potential? Not sure if Rodgers was as scientific about it, but clearly he was an outlier being able to run 2:09 in the 70s

have been listening to podcasts on marathoning and ultras on morning runs in the dark (by myself as i am in a retirement area and no one else run). i am 75 years in age and have never done an ultra but ~35 maratons. almost every coach on the podcast says the same thing: slow running on recovery days builds aerobic strength and promotes recovery. world class kenyans on recovery days often run 9-10 miles/hr. also that japanese would be better than east africans if they didn't hammer all the time. i guess they run 3 times/day, never easy, and usually on tracks due to corporate sponsorship. kenyans and ethiopians do 90+% on trails. once in berlin i saw bekele jogging in a park after a race day and i could not believe how slow he was running. i followed him for while in awe. course he had just beaten lagat in the 5k final the night before

i was a 2:32 marathoner so i should have been running my long runs 1.5+ minutes slower than i did. most of us never did back then. we were too stupid . i wish in could replay it. i think that is why i could never handle more than 90+ miles per week sustained. after that i just fell apart mentally because i was so physically beat. even though i was not nearly good enough to make a living out of it i would have gladly run more even though i worked full time and had family committments.

it also comes across in podcasts that elite athletes benefit greatly from elite coaches and structured environment: run , eat, sleep , daily massage or therapy, decent food. they execute a plan without trying to constantly figure out what is best with their limited knowledge. i would recommend every average runner learn from a good coach, not just on line as each of us is different. the first thing i would do is go to a good training camp during vacation. especially when i think how much time i invested in running . good luck

“I run with company often”.

Stfu. 0/10

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy wrote:

Been running for six years, past nine months have done workouts perhaps once every 10 days or less. Strides/sprints once a week. Didn't used to always train like this. I am much faster now than I was before. 400 speed is quicker, and hour long tempos are at my previous 10k pace. Mileage is moderate, 60-70 most weeks. What's the deal here? Do you not need workouts often to be fast?

400 then vs now: 52-49

10k pace was 4:58, now that is extended tempo pace.

So, like the first reply, you must be a sub 4 miler or soon to be?

Not sure what is up with the negativity, and its not a troll post. Im just a young guy who hasn’t had formal coaching in a while and I like to run with people of all speeds.

That is all extremely insightful. I doubt I will move up to a marathon but I find that incorporating the same principles will help me.

I have not ran a mile in a very long time. Will soon and will post results.

Hazel wrote:

Been reading a lot about Bill Rodgers recently. Question - assuming someone does crazy high mileage like he did, would those 100+ weeks alone be enough to run consistent marathon PRs assuming one can stay healthy?

Or does one need to run at least 10% of weekly mileage at those faster gears to unlock the full potential? Not sure if Rodgers was as scientific about it, but clearly he was an outlier being able to run 2:09 in the 70s

Rodgers did a lot of racing (road 10ks etc) weekly at times so had regular training at gears faster than marathon pace.

Re a previous comment, 5:30 to 6 min miles can be easy for an elite runner, but some often do very slow jogging as part of recovering from races.

0/10

"I'm a sub-4 miler and sub-29 10K runner but no recent race results or formal training..."

Never claimed to be either a sub 4 miler or a sub 29 10k runner, ya'll trolls be wildin' out here.

My biggest jump in the marathon came from going from 60 mpw with workouts to 85 mpw with no workouts.

older runner wrote:

world class kenyans on recovery days often run 9-10 miles/hr. also that japanese would be better than east africans if they didn't hammer all the time. i guess they run 3 times/day, never easy, and usually on tracks due to corporate sponsorship. kenyans and ethiopians do 90+% on trails.

From what I have read I'd say that observation is backwards, and its the Japanese who run slow and not enough workouts. Those Kenyans will do their morning runs initially very slow but will then speed up considerably towards the end, and then do a traditional workout PM. The Japanese on the other hand do insane mileage and silly slow speeds every day. I wouldn't use the Japanese as a comparison to what's not working though as they pretty well with this regime, it's other factors that I think are behind them not being up their with Kenyans - physical genetics, mental stress and lifestyle etc.

For the topic, my opinion is just jogging about will get you no where. I blame heart rate sensors for a lot of this and all that MAF nonsense. Running fast is neuromuscular which is improved by running fast, and is lost by not running fast.

Another giver of +1 wrote:

Hazel wrote:

Been reading a lot about Bill Rodgers recently. Question - assuming someone does crazy high mileage like he did, would those 100+ weeks alone be enough to run consistent marathon PRs assuming one can stay healthy?

Or does one need to run at least 10% of weekly mileage at those faster gears to unlock the full potential? Not sure if Rodgers was as scientific about it, but clearly he was an outlier being able to run 2:09 in the 70s

Rodgers did a lot of racing (road 10ks etc) weekly at times so had regular training at gears faster than marathon pace.

Re a previous comment, 5:30 to 6 min miles can be easy for an elite runner, but some often do very slow jogging as part of recovering from races.

This. Also my take with a lot of these 'old timer' training approaches is that you need to take what they say with a pinch of salt! Often they'd call something in their logs an 'easy run' or a 'jog', which from a RunnersWorld readers perspective translates too they barely ran and was a very casual jog, when actually they hammered some of it, often on hilly terrain. As mentioned above they also raced hard weekly which people seem to forget. Couple this with daily high mileage at a good clip and you get fast times amazingly enough.

rrrfdr wrote:

My biggest jump in the marathon came from going from 60 mpw with workouts to 85 mpw with no workouts.

Would be interesting to see your Strava (I have a related theory).

Lots of misconceptions here.

What makes people faster are primarily two things:

1) HARD workouts.

2) RACES.

Everything else is just supplementary.

Yes, elites run 80-90% of their mileage "easy". Why do they do that? Not because the easy miles are the best training stimulus to become world champions in the 1500, 5k or 10k. It's because it's literally the only thing they can do in order to fully ABSORB the workouts and BENEFIT from them.

If they would run any faster than what is easy for them (say they would do all their easy runs at 4:40 pace), there is no way they would still be able to HIT their key workouts as well as they could with truly easy runs, or even if they could still hit the workouts, they would not be able to recover anymore and get faster.

I know lots of people who changed from a 2 workout a week schedule to "just easy runs" and stagnated or even got worse. You don't see many elites doing that, like cutting their weekly workouts so they could run either MORE miles or FASTER miles without workouts.

Kenyans running very easy on their easy days is just another proof that workouts are the most important thing - they just hit the workouts so hard, that they have to run even easier on their easy days to absorb them, recover and be at full strength again for the next workout.

No, they don't make you run fast...

They allow you to run at your current pace at a lower heart rate over time which allows you to train harder. Taking advantage of the HR benefits is what allows you to run fast. You have to train to run fast no matter what.

Running fast makes you fast. If you spend your entire training cycle running 70 miles a week at 11 minute pace, you're not going to magically run a 5k in 21:00 if you haven't been actually trying to run the 5k in 21:00. if you only train slow you'll run slow.

This

I often ran PRs early in the season or during the off season. Many of my “easy runs”. Were actuaally things like hilly10 milers where id push each uphill. Even though i wouldnt ne doing workouts, id be pretty dang close to PR shape off of “only easy running”.

As for the OP, my guess is that he was over training during the periods where he was being coached and running for a team.