Training methods for 4:2x mile WITHOUT doubling. Help me make a school record!!

@GoFastEatAss

Thank you! Although I am not able to double, this seems like a good schedule for college or sometime in the future. I might hang onto the key workouts though, for future purposes. These tips are incredible, it seems that you are a well-read runner! I am curious, what is your mile time?

You need to do more fast hard sessions you do enough miles to run well under 4:40

Earlier in this thread someone suggested that you should train like a 4:59 miler rather than a 4:25 miler. With that in mind a weekly long run of 12 miles might be a bit too ambitious and a 10 miler might be enough. You're still just 15.

coach wrote:

Earlier in this thread someone suggested that you should train like a 4:59 miler rather than a 4:25 miler. With that in mind a weekly long run of 12 miles might be a bit too ambitious and a 10 miler might be enough. You're still just 15.

His long run should be in the 70-90 min range. His pace will determine if that is 10 miles or 12+. Going above that puts too much stress (better spending that recovery doing faster hills, intervals, more tempo mileage, 2nd hour run,....) for minimal gain (i.e. he isn't running a marathon).

Mainly though I ment don't try and run 8x66 tomorrow when you should be doing 8x74. You might be able to run something crazy for short intervals but it isn't super productive training. And make sure to celebrate every mileston (running 4:50, 10:20, or 2:10) along the way.

My mile pr is 4:07

so what? That post is utter nonsense. Some of those workouts will destroy a HS kid.

I am a high school kid and I have done that workout. That's why I'm good. (Not to brag)

Try to run shorter races to develop your speed. Run the 400 and 800 in relays and dual meets whenever they let you. As a sophomore I ran 54 for the 400, and by my senior year it was 50.x even while training like a distance runner (cross country, etc). That came from just growing and getting to run a lot of 400's and 800's. Never did any sprint training or anything.

So just getting your 58 down to 54-55 will help a lot with your goal.

I’m not very talented and I ran 4:20s in high school back in 90s dark ages.

Typically 30-40 miles a week with 2-3 workouts/races a week.

Would often run a leg on the 4 x 4. Typical repeat Quarters at race pace. The occasional tempo. Lots of strides.

You need some speed to run a fast mile.

Here’s what I suggest now after the 2000s training enlightenment.

M- Progression Long Run (10-12)

T- Easy + Strides (5-7)

W- Tempo (7-8 w/ warmup & cooldown)

T- Easy Long Run (9-11)

F- Easy + 10 second Hill Sprints (5-7)

S- Fartlek (6-8)

S- Off

When you get about a month from a peak race start doing hard workouts like 10 x 400 at race pace on Wednesday’s and Saturday’s.

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

coach wrote:

Earlier in this thread someone suggested that you should train like a 4:59 miler rather than a 4:25 miler. With that in mind a weekly long run of 12 miles might be a bit too ambitious and a 10 miler might be enough. You're still just 15.

His long run should be in the 70-90 min range. His pace will determine if that is 10 miles or 12+. Going above that puts too much stress (better spending that recovery doing faster hills, intervals, more tempo mileage, 2nd hour run,....) for minimal gain (i.e. he isn't running a marathon).

Mainly though I ment don't try and run 8x66 tomorrow when you should be doing 8x74. You might be able to run something crazy for short intervals but it isn't super productive training. And make sure to celebrate every mileston (running 4:50, 10:20, or 2:10) along the way.

I dont know if a 15 year old needs a weekly 1 hour and twenty plus minute run.

Nor does he need a 7 mile tempo run as others suggested.

Why out here at LRC asking for training advice when you have a coach?

Puts your coach in bad days.

My advice is the miles weekly should be capped at 40 with no single run over 60' and never running double sessions. Increase your miles at < 6 pace, take walking breaks to keep the effort medium.

Get the lead out, and do varied pace workouts on the grass and trails as much as possible.

You measure the effectiveness of your endurance work by how easily you hit 3'km in practice, not how easily you jog 30km. You need to be able to go < 2 800 to be safely < 4:20 1600.

dsrunner wrote:

My advice is the miles weekly should be capped at 40 with no single run over 60' and never running double sessions. Increase your miles at < 6 pace, take walking breaks to keep the effort medium.

Get the lead out, and do varied pace workouts on the grass and trails as much as possible.

You measure the effectiveness of your endurance work by how easily you hit 3'km in practice, not how easily you jog 30km. You need to be able to go < 2 800 to be safely < 4:20 1600.

Quality over quantity appears to be the name of the game. Thank you for this, it seems very reasonable.

Hey ElGuerroujFan, I had a similar progression to that which you hope to achieve - I ran 4:57 as a 15 year old, eventually working my way down to 4:30. I will share a few tips which I believe helped me drop time.

1. You seem to have a very good handle on the running side of things, and I would wager that you are aerobically fit. So, I will not discuss this here.

2. Once track season rolls around, if you can run the 800, do it. It will help you get comfortable (or at least more comfortable) running fast, and also help your kick

3. Lift weights. Physical strength translates to power on the track. Bench press, squat, incline press, deadlift. Some core, pullups, pushups, etc.

4. When you line up to race, COMPETE. Run to win. Push hard. Finish on empty.

Good luck!

statics wrote:

Hey ElGuerroujFan, I had a similar progression to that which you hope to achieve - I ran 4:57 as a 15 year old, eventually working my way down to 4:30. I will share a few tips which I believe helped me drop time.

1. You seem to have a very good handle on the running side of things, and I would wager that you are aerobically fit. So, I will not discuss this here.

2. Once track season rolls around, if you can run the 800, do it. It will help you get comfortable (or at least more comfortable) running fast, and also help your kick

3. Lift weights. Physical strength translates to power on the track. Bench press, squat, incline press, deadlift. Some core, pullups, pushups, etc.

4. When you line up to race, COMPETE. Run to win. Push hard. Finish on empty.

Good luck!

I have been told before to run the 800. The only time I have run the 800 before was when I had shin splints and I was being foolish. I ended up being 2nd to last, only beating last with a finishing kick. I will begin lifting weights once I am allowed to whenever I need to. Competitive spirit should be the least of my worries, but I will keep it in check. Thank you!

GoFastEatAss wrote:

The Mile is without a doubt, one of the hardest races to accomplish. Might I say great job on reaching a 4:59 at 15. Sub 5 on the mile is a huge accomplishment, but it is going to take lots of hard training to reach sub 4:45, let along sub 4:34. I am a high schooler that runs track and Cross Country, and after multiple years of running and evaluating the best types of training I have written up the following schedule that I recommend you follow below:

(p.s this schedule looks pretty hard,

Cmon bro even for high school the training you wrote wasn’t that hard. If you think that’s hard you clearly haven’t studied enough training

@Trackfan55

Most workouts for high school track consists of 4-5 reps of a certain distance (600-1200 meters). Then after one rep, the person will have about a 100m walk with 3-4 minutes of recovery. THAT IS NOT WHAT YOUR ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. You need to do more reps, at the same or faster pace, and not have a long recovery between each rep. I have seen kids accomplish so much more with this plan. Half of my varsity would throw up after one of these workouts. You cannot tell me that this plan is not hard.

bebsbsbs wrote:

50 miles per week

long run of 10-12 miles all year long every week up until a week or two before peak

off season/early season:

20-30 minutes of tempo of fartlek every week

hills or cruise intervals (repeat 1000s/1200s/1600s/2000s totaling 3-5 miles with 1minute rest between reps SLOWER than your 5k pace) every week

during season:

tempo every 2 or 3 weeks

interval session every week (alternate 3200m or 5k paced intervals with 800m or 1600m paced intervals)

That will get you there. Consistency is everything. Run 7 days a week, every week all year long except for breaks after seasons.

This. It might take a while to get there, but It's a great base training concept.

Right now, assuming you're at 35-40 mpw.

M: 9-10 miles easy. If feeling good, insert some strides or sub T pace stuff in the last couple of miles

T: 4-5 miles very easy

W: 4 miles easy + drills + 4-5 x 50-80m, slow walk back recovery. 1 mile CD, lunges, push ups , core.

Th: 1-2 mile wu + drills, 20 min threshold OR, 30-40 Tempo, Sub T, Steady, whatever you want to call a fairly fast run that is comfortable OR easy intervals of 1 min at slightly faster than threshold with 1 min easy running (not jogging) recovery. 6-12 total reps + 4 x 200 @ 32-33 seconds, full recovery (walk across infield) should follow all of the aerobic sessions. 1 mile CD

F: 3-4 miles very easy

Sat: 3 miles warm up, drills, 4 x 150 @ 400m race pace, at least 3 min slow walk recovery 3 mile CD. Lunges, push ups, core

Sun: 4 miles very easy

This gives you about 40 miles. Over time, let the long run lengthen out to 11-12 miles, Work up to 6 miles on Wed before the sprints, add a mile to the easy very easy days, Add an extra mile on the Saturday run....That should get you closer to 50.

This type of schedule can be maintained for long periods of time and will provide the building blocks for when you want to do race specific stuff later on.

The building blocks for the more specific training should look like this

The 150s should be very comfortable at right around 20 seconds

After 200s in 32-33 seconds, you should be fully recovered in a minute or less

The easy intervals at just faster than threshold should be dropping down to maybe 5:15 ish pace.

Threshold stuff will probably be around 5:30

Sub T, Tempo, Steady stuff will probably be around 6:00

Easy running at around 7:00-7:20

Very easy running at 7:30-8:00

coach wrote:

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

His long run should be in the 70-90 min range. His pace will determine if that is 10 miles or 12+. Going above that puts too much stress (better spending that recovery doing faster hills, intervals, more tempo mileage, 2nd hour run,....) for minimal gain (i.e. he isn't running a marathon).

Mainly though I ment don't try and run 8x66 tomorrow when you should be doing 8x74. You might be able to run something crazy for short intervals but it isn't super productive training. And make sure to celebrate every mileston (running 4:50, 10:20, or 2:10) along the way.

I dont know if a 15 year old needs a weekly 1 hour and twenty plus minute run.

Nor does he need a 7 mile tempo run as others suggested.

Need is hard to define. There is a ton of evidence that 70-90 min runs are one of the better ways to develop aerobic ability. Obviously if your long run has been 45 mins, you take a couple months to built towards this. 7 mile tempo runs seems a bit excessive unless you really like those type of runs. I would vote for 3-4 miles of HM paced intervals an a couple of faster 200s at the end. But yes a ton of guys run great miles off pretty low mileage (35mpw) and some really hard intervals. I am not sold on that being the best year round program but it definitely works for some people.