Does EPO really work? How much faster can a person get?

my guess is that for someone like Cathal Lombard it would be worth about 30 seconds in a 10k.

He made great improvements to his training before he ran 27.30 on EPO.

At the very highest level I guess it is worth 15-20 seconds in a 10k. Much less than the 3% often bandied about.

undaunted wrote:

my guess is that for someone like Cathal Lombard it would be worth about 30 seconds in a 10k.

He made great improvements to his training before he ran 27.30 on EPO.

At the very highest level I guess it is worth 15-20 seconds in a 10k. Much less than the 3% often bandied about.

"Great improvements to his training"? Based on what? Other than EPO.

Lombard was very much an overtrainer before he was coached by Joe Doonan.

before he started cathal had run 13:5x 5k which is much better than the 30 minute 10k, so you figure he should be in close to 29:00. A few months after starting epo he ran 13:19, at hechtel i believe, and then the next year he ran the big 10k.

part of taking drugs is that you can train as hard as you want because the workouts that used to be overtraining are now perfect because you recover so much faster.

Why is it that people can go on and on about Cathal Lombard but any mention of Deeja Younquist and it is deleted. Both had huge improvements and both were busted for drugs. I understand throwing non facts out may mess with an athletes reputation, but why delete facts.

FACTS ONLY

1. Eddy H tested positive and is serving a 2 year ban.

2. Deeja Y tested positive and is serving a 2 year ban.

3. Teddy Mitchell showed a huge improvement during this time.

4. Teddy trained with and coached both Eddy and Deeja.

Before you delete this or ban me, please dispute any fact.

Are you speaking from experience?

Go to PubMed.

Several studies have looked at rhEPO but more have looked at the results when adding red blood cells.

A 1% improvement may not be much, but the difference in timed events at the Olympics in terms of gold and 4th is often 1% or less.

You know this how? Also, says who the 13:50odd wasn't juiced?

OMG, I just do not understand why my posts in this thread keep getting deleted. My feelings about letsrun are being drastically reassessed. Anyone recommend any other running chatlines? What do I have to do, write that EPO is good?

AGAIN, because maybe I like beating my head against a wall:

Anyone who cheats and "succeeds" hasn't really succeeded at all. You must take that to bed every night for the rest of your life. You must look in the mirror. Ovett said "I can look in the mirror and feel good about what I see. Some others cannot." Even a million dollars cannot buy this.

I am not an elite runner, but for 15 years I worked my ass off to try to break 4min for 1500m. When that finally happened, I was the happiest person in the world that night. Many years later I am still very proud of what I accomplished.

IF I had cheated my way to sub 4, I cannot imagine how empty I would feel then, and now. It ain't worth it.

Remember Ben Johnson after he "won"? Something was wrong there. He didn't seem thrilled.

Call me a dreamer, but I believe we all have consciences. If you cheat yourself, you'll always feel cheated.

OK, now you can go ahead and delete me again.

Look everyone in that Olympic final was busted for drugs axcept for one runner. Dennis Mitchel, Carl Lewis, Christie, all the big names. Johnson did "win" in the context of who he was competing against, sure he borke the rules but so did all of the other finalists bar one.

But my statements above remain unchanged by this. Someone previously mentioned "If they are all on drugs and I am too, did I cheat?" The answer is yes, not no like the author believed.

Then a top North American 5000m runner (who got inexplicably deleted) chimed in with something very worthy: If you cheat and beat him, you lied, you stole, you belong in jail.

We have rules. If you break them, no matter who else in your race is doing it too, you have cheated yourself and all others who abide by rules, and even if you win the race and a million bucks, it ain't right and it ain't worth it.

Have I been deleted yet?

KudzuRunner wrote:

For all the talk about EPO, there's one issue I've never seen discussed: the merits (or demerits) of distinctly sub-elite runners using blood doping as a way of--well, making large improvements, winning age-group categories (and money!), whatever.

Not that I, at 47, am really considering blood doping as a way, say, of lowering my current 5K time (19:36) to, say, my PR at 26 (17:27).....

But hey: in the Memphis/N.Mississippi area, that would get me noticed.

So let's have an honest discussion. Has anybody here--midpackers, I mean--tried blood doping? I mean, why not?--apart from all the obvious moral & health reasons (i.e., it's sinful, bad sportsmanship, against the rules, and might thicken your blood into deadly chesse-goop).

Seriously. Why should we over-the-hill guys try it, once?

It's a serious medical procedure that requires doctors and a hospital. Not something that can be done at home. I think now that there's also debate on whether (your own) stored blood cells are effective, which is why perhaps Tyler Hamilton was caught with someone else's blood in his system. As for EPO, it's VERY expensive. Unless you were an elite with a lot of cash or a government to pay for it, doesn't make much sense.

I have seen the inside of eddy H's fridgerater, you would be shocked to see how much epo he has with other top athleets names on it.

I used EPO about 4 years ago when I was working as a mountaineering guide.

EPO is for cheaters like Eddy H, I used to have a lot of respect for him....not anymore.

There is no theoretical limit to how fast we can get. Look how fast Cheetahs and Antelopes have gotten. On the other hand, there is no reason to think that we, as a species, are actually getting faster. We might be getting slower. I can't think of any selective pressure that would cause us to be speeding up, or any reason for us to need any speed at all.

Yeah but cheetahs and antelopes do it naturally.

I have a friend who used to be a professional bike racer. He told me a story about unknowingly being given some kind of drug by the team trainer during a post race massage. He quickly realized what had happened. He said he raced like a maniac, recovered unbelievably well and did'nt sleep for 3 days.... The affects were amazing but said it scared the hell out of him. It was the only time he was ever aware of being given anything.. Epo and drugs in general can be quite dangerous but the immediate affects can sometimes be remarkable...

well...yeah.