Agree, though it also definitely matters what development path you take. Building a big aerobic engine is key for everyone with that goal, but don't ignore efficiency and other factors.
Agree, though it also definitely matters what development path you take. Building a big aerobic engine is key for everyone with that goal, but don't ignore efficiency and other factors.
Good to see mostly positive here. Could be an interesting journey to watch. Keep in mind, this guy doesn't have to make the team for this to be fun from an armchair perspective. Even doing a couple good ones but missing the standard would be cool to me. I'll try to follow this if it keeps going.
Also good to see Nate Jenkins mentioned. That blogspot link leads to an arsenal of great info, although that particular post is one of the good ones. He's the kind of guy to look to for training advice. Not a superstar since birth but figured it out and made it happen. The story of his first marathon - this will be earlier that blog so you'll have to go back a few pages - is gold. He's also done long interviews on various podcasts. Well worth investigating.
I was in a semi similar position when I graduated summer of 2015 from college.
Spring 2015 - Half just under 69:00 and also raced some 5k/10k road races.
Summer of 2015 - Big mileage and marathon specific
Fall of 2015 - First marathon 2:31 (bonked very hard after 18 miles)
2016 - Focus on half training and ran a few US road circuit races.
2017 - First half of the year focus on half training, second half bump up the mileage a lot and do some hard marathon training.
Late 2017 - Race second marathon in 2:18 and qualify for the trials.
I think the approach you listed initially was fine, but I don't think limiting training to "just mileage" or limiting a hard cap at 100mpw is necessary either way. The mileage isn't the magic factor and from experience there isn't much different in 90 to 100mpw or 100 to 110mpw if the quality is the same between the two comparisons.
It'll be exciting to see more people start training for a hopeful 2024 trials!
Step One.... wrote:
Good to see mostly positive here. Could be an interesting journey to watch. Keep in mind, this guy doesn't have to make the team for this to be fun from an armchair perspective. Even doing a couple good ones but missing the standard would be cool to me. I'll try to follow this if it keeps going.
Also good to see Nate Jenkins mentioned. That blogspot link leads to an arsenal of great info, although that particular post is one of the good ones. He's the kind of guy to look to for training advice. Not a superstar since birth but figured it out and made it happen. The story of his first marathon - this will be earlier that blog so you'll have to go back a few pages - is gold. He's also done long interviews on various podcasts. Well worth investigating.
I started this thread half-jokingly, but hey, I'll keep it going if that's what the people want. Just won't be too interesting for the next 6 months as I'm still on a college team. Maybe I'll don a Letsrun jersey if I actually make it to the trials
Average High School Runner wrote:
There is on guy from UC Davis who ran for their club, ran a 14:17 5k and didnt break 29 in the 10k and he ran somewhere around a high 63 and qualified for the OT marathon. It just matters whether you're faster aerobically or faster anaerobically.
Nathan Kwan is an animal, and OP should not get unrealistic expectations comparing himself to him. He ran that 14:17 off less than 60 MPW, and 63:50 off 80ish MPW. I wouldn't be surprised to see him run low 28's and 2:13 someday.
Gentleman Savage wrote:
You've never qualified for the OT. The margin for a high-14 5K college senior to get to 2:19 in the marathon in 3 years is razor thin.
I was one of those people. 14:50 5000m PR in college. Graduated in 2017. Ran 2:18 in October of 2019.
The key is specificity. I did hardly anything faster than half marathon pace, and did a ton of stuff at marathon pace. Along with 20+ mile long runs at 5:45-6:00 pace over rolling hills almost every week. 110-120 mpw consistently.
Just gotta put yourself through the training and it can happen. The problem I see the most is people not doing the long runs and specific work required for a good marathon. They train for a 5k/10k, add in a few 20 mile jogs, and call it "marathon training".
To be fair, I ran 14:23 less than two months after I ran the qualifier, so I was ready for something faster than 14:50. But I technically had a 14:48 5k PR when I ran the qualifier. Ran 14:50-14:55 multiple times my senior year of college. Couldn't for the life of me get under 14:50...
[quote]animaxcg wrote:
What I said would actually jive well with Hansons training.. high millage long workouts. I literally said you can do it by running races or you can do it by not running races... races don't make you better. /quote]
Races though. prevent you from lying to your self. It is one thing to go out and run 100mpw for a year. But if you aren't doing races, it is hard to tell if you have gone from being say 2:30-2:35 (i.e. what you would expect a 15 min guy to run with like a 16 week build up) to a 2:25 guy or if you are still a 2:35 guy who has just run a lot. I don't think anybody is suggesting a 70s style racing 2x month program. But going to the other extreme and only running. 1 or 2 races which it doesn't sound like you are prepping for (probably so you have. an excuse. 2:32 isn't great but since I didn't do any workouts, it is really better right?) also seems like a crappy ida. Run a half dozen races, see where you are, and keep working towards your goals.
Seriously this sounds like a plan where you hobby jog around for a year and run an OK marathon (you can get a lot of the way there with just mileage). Then you try and do some faster stuff and get injuried and you complain that training fast results in injury and. you never make your goal.
Races though. prevent you from lying to your self. It is one thing to go out and run 100mpw for a year. But if you aren't doing races, it is hard to tell if you have gone from being say 2:30-2:35 (i.e. what you would expect a 15 min guy to run with like a 16 week build up) to a 2:25 guy or if you are still a 2:35 guy who has just run a lot. I don't think anybody is suggesting a 70s style racing 2x month program. But going to the other extreme and only running. 1 or 2 races which it doesn't sound like you are prepping for (probably so you have. an excuse. 2:32 isn't great but since I didn't do any workouts, it is really better right?) also seems like a crappy ida. Run a half dozen races, see where you are, and keep working towards your goals.
mostly a 2:35 guy who ran a ton
I don't need constant validation to make sure "I'm not lying to myself" nor does anyone with a good head on their shoulders. If you do the work trust a good training plan stay healthy when your peak race comes around you'll be ready. Lets say you race often and run a 10k during your last 10 weeks of your build up. If you are worried you are a minute slower in the 10k during your marathon build up who cares... what did racing a 10k a minute slower than your PR accomplish for the marathon? that's not even 1/4th of the distance your training for.
Seriously this sounds like a plan where you hobby jog around for a year and run an OK marathon (you can get a lot of the way there with just mileage). Then you try and do some faster stuff and get injuried and you complain that training fast results in injury and. you never make your goal.
you're right I do hobby jog 70-100mpw in the summer (may - early October) because I don't do well in the heat and humidity of the south and because until this year had to go into the office to work. But I am not hobby jogging in the fall - spring for 1 winter and 1 spring marathon (plus a couple build up races if I am healthy)
And by less speed I mean I am not doing any 5k/10k pace work during a marathon build up and I only have 2 hard efforts a week (1 harder long run, 1 long workout).. To be honest if you added up the volume of sub 5:40 pace work it would probably be considerably more than sub 5:10 work for a typical 2-3 workout a week 5k/10k plan. I guess what I was getting at was when you do a workout that's 10-16 miles of intensity you won't really have a great time running a workout 48 hours later and risk injury. so the 5k/10k training doesn't scale linearly to the marathon. (maybe Japanese style training would be the counter point to my argument)
During my summers I do usually try to get some good 5k work in but it's too hot for me to run a decent 5K. I really have a bad time in the humidity even though I grew up running here
Hey man! How did this go? Would love to hear an update. Did you make it?
Are you training with Coebra?