Why did Asada Powell never run a 9.6

to lr posters all time greats are 'bridges' ?

mr. nice guy wrote:

give what up? facts? I don't care what you do or don't care about. even better, it objectively doesn't matter. only facts matter.

powell is the 4th (but really 2nd) fastest man ever. fact

9.84 and olympic isn't luck or 'sneaking in'

carlito also used drugs

mj is as I already stated- all over the all time 2&4 lists

if powell were born on a lucky date like mo farah but was the exact same athlete he was your opinion would change (based on your 'era defining', and 'bridge' and 'forgettable'), that's another reason it doesn't matter. mo had 7 years of ruthless reign after kb left. take powell 2005-2011 with similar level opponents to mo's instead of top3 all time. even after that the only challenger is gatlin (5th best ever) for another 6 years. now picture the 6xWC, 4xOC mo trying his utmost against bekele, haile and komen

I'm talking sprints. When you say mo I hear Greene.

You say "facts" then say Powell is the 4th fastest....but really the 2nd fastest...

Uh..."fact" based on YOUR concept is....he's 4th. Period.

And I've got a memory of a non-all-time-great Atkins running him down in the last 15 meters of a champ final back in '07 when Powells "greatness" story could still have been written differently. What does that fact do for you?

Look. Here's a truth. Send powell to El Paso sometime from '05 to '10 and maybe get this 9.6x a fanboy wants. But where Powell goes 9.6x, does Bolt search for a high 9.4? And maybe Gay and Blake go 9.6 flat and talk about 9.5?

He's, like, third best of his mixed era (end of Greene, beginning of Gay/Blacke Bolt). That's just his ERA.

Hell...with Gatlin in consideration...maybe he's even 4th.

no, gatlin was slower. stick to 1 definition of my definition

I already told you 9.6x was his, he just for some reason chose not to take it. most likely didn't expect a 2nd 9.7x on the same day, ended up with new world record

that was shortly after osaka. cousin d-dawg, even in his carrer defining race, didn't beat powell, ap just gave up cause 2nd or 3rd he didn't care, what can I tell you. he was weird like that but his speed speaks for itself, that's all I'm saying. you whine that people come to talk about him, ben, mj etc... it's cause they were beasts, what's so unclear?

add +1.5 (legal) wind in his 9.72 and that's another 9.6x. no el paso, there he'd still be as fast or likely more than gay and blake

his 'mixed' (??) era was the best, so being 4th there is being 4th ever. and you're agreeing with my mo farah comparison by talking about 'writing his story'

I'm not saying he's the goat I'm just saying he wasted his potential, I'd say he is still the thrird-forth best sprinter. His 9.72 is better than any of Tyson gays times, that 9.69 had maximum possible wind. Powell is only behind Bolt, Gatlin ,and Blake in potential.Gatlin and Blake were probably better talents than Powell.

With Tyson gays plus 2 wind Powell would run 9.64 and he slowed down for that 9.72. He did not need wind chasing for a 9.6.

Honestly I don't follow distance enough to know about your Farah bs.

Era comparisons are more BS than anything, so I'm not on board with "this era was the best ever" simply because it's an impossible discussion. Though I understand having that view, considering the athletes and the numbers, but I wouldn't stamp it as "fact" enough that being 4th in his "era" guarantees him 4th position all-time.

Your shifting position on the concept of using "facts" to ones advantage in an argument is very confusing. You render one "posit" (Gatlin likely better) as wanting, then turn around and say "yEaH, BUt He gaVe Up In OSaka, hE wAS rEaLLy 2nD!!!!!!!" and "aDD +1.5 To HiS 9.7x aNd ItS 9.6x!!!!!!"

Alrighty. Facts. Sure.

The guys I whine about are beasts. But the weird fandom over lame individuals in a niche sport that lead to really CONVOLUTED claims is what brings me out the wood work.

For example. A weird Bailey fan boy will go out of his way to say MJ was NEVER REMOTELY CAPABLE of sub-10 in an open 100. EVER. FaCTs iS fACts!!!! Then....you'll get guys saying coming in claiming Johnson could have run 9.8x/9.7x if he tried.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of both of those. I don't think I'm making taking an extreme view on Powell here, so I'm not sure how one can take what I say about him and "halve it" one way or the other. Powell was pretty legit, but his career is summed up, to me, as "always the bridesmaid, never the bride". So if we say he's going 9.6 somewhere, you've got guys of his own era (aforementioned folks) that are capable of bettering that in the same environment. Which to me knocks down Powell hype a few notches and keeps it in context.

Well I'm not a Michael Johnson fan, but I stand by what I said, why is him running a 9.85 crazy its about half the amount of improvement as he had in the 200m since 1994.If I said he was as good in the 100 as he was in the 200 and that he could run a 9.6, that would be mindless. But 9.85 is not even on the level of a 19.32. I also said it was very unlikely for Michael Johnson to run 9.85 and there was only a small chance. But bolt was similar to Johnson in that he was always fast but lacked acceleration abilities, improving his form lead to him being one of the best over 60m all time.Acceleration is the most train able part of the 100. Im only expecting Johnson to have half of the improvement bolt had, when he stepped down. But again I believe its highly unlikely, it was just a possibility we will never know his true potential.

if you're coming out of the woodwork you must be a worm or insect

gay did fantastic, but with wind people DO run faster. sorry you don't like facts, but as the other poster said, lausanne 9.72 with +2m/s is 9.64. tyson had +2.0 in his 9.69. gatlin's best also comes out slower than powell. fact. get over it

weaker opponents are easier to win against than the 3 best all time. you call it bs for some reason but it's not. it's FACT

being 4th fastest (2nd wind corrected, close 2nd in relays) ever is not an opinion, it's fact

him making a mess of it on his own in osaka is obvious and he admitted to it. his lack of medals relative to his ability is known. I'm just telling you he's one of the fastest. you admitting he has too few medals for being do fast shows you understand that and are just trolling

you fall back on johnson again, maybe feeling your other arguments are weak and nonsensical. coach hart had him do long runs, if he had trained differently for a long time it's likely he'd be able to break 10. very unlikely to reach d. beastley's level. facts

*3rd fastest wind corrected

mr. nice guy wrote:

*3rd fastest wind corrected

Exactly.

Can't even get your own facts straight and have to post again to mop up.

Sure buddy.

you're not funny so try harder, trollito. also try harder to post at least 1 relevant fact instead of goofing, whining and shyttalking cause so far so easy for me

mr. nice guy wrote:

you're not funny so try harder, trollito. also try harder to post at least 1 relevant fact instead of goofing, whining and shyttalking cause so far so easy for me

"If you're coming out of woodwork you must be a worm or insect"

-you

Thats.....that's so far so east for you, huh?

Ok....fine.

Powell's Lusanne 9.72 converts to 9.74 basic.

Gay's Berlin 9.71 converts to 9.75 basic.

Negligible difference. What, you want to call this a clear Powell "win"? Ok, sure. Then consider the following:

In Gay's Berlin 9.71 (taking second to Bolt's 9.58, of course), Powell was .13 behind and finished in 9.84. That converts to a a 9.88, by the way.

Gays next best wind conversion 100m result is a 9.77 with a +0.4 wind reading where he took first place on 7/10/2009. It converts to a 9.79. Guess who he beat in that race? Powell, who finished 2nd in 9.88.

Powell's next best wind conversion is a 9.83 in Bruxelles that was run into a -1.3 wind which DOES convert to a 9.75. You can use that as a rebuttal, if you like. The problem is, outside of this Bruxelles wind anomaly (it's Bolt's only sub 9.7 wind conversion outside of a championship final, as his 9.77 win converts to 9.69 basic), Powell and Gay are damn near identical in wind conversions. For example, Powell went 9.78 in Reiti in still conditions once, but Gay went 9.79 with a +0.1, as well. Based on the altitudes, those are both 9.79 basic conversions.

The difference of course being, when they actually raced...Gay won. In one offs, in champ finals....Gay BEAT Powell. To me, that makes his .01 9.74 top coversion edge and his 9.75 second conversion moot.

If you're going to take Powells 9.72 and propose a +2.0 equivalent of 9.64, then I theorize that if Gay was in that race he would have run at least 9.70 and thus been capable of a 9.62 in a +2.0. Why do I get to say that?

Cause in races where Powell was against him, Gay beat him. Osaka 2007. Berlin 2009. Stockholm 2009. Roma 2010. London 2012. That's why. All I can find in Powell's favor is him beating Gay once in Bruxelles in 2009. As far as I can tell, that's a 1-5 record against Gay; maybe not a complete record, but it's not like there are four or five races out there in there either where he beat gay that I dont know about.

And we already know Gay was capable of mid 9.7 basic results (Berlin 2009), AND running low 9.7x and breaking 9.7 (Shanghai 2009) regardless of wind benefits (Eugene 2008) is on the record. You put Gay in a Powell Reiti or that Lusanne race where Powell goes 9.72, and you hVe no reason to assume Gay wouldn't go 9.70/9.65 other than it hurts your weird fandom and doesn't fit your cherry picking facts repertoire.

Oh. Missed one. Lausanne, 2013, Gay wins in 9.78 with a barely legal wind (+2.0). Powell takes second in 9.88.

Ironically, both got popped for doping and these results have been "eliminated" from the official record. Which goes to show, they are both dbags.

I'm just informing you of the facts that Powell was an inferior 100m dbag to Gays 100m dbag-ness.

His 9.74 was not that much eased up.

https://youtu.be/8MbKTPneQSA?t=15

He was relaxed and that helped him run fast.

He wasn't going under 9.70 in that race.

And he did run a 9.72

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEQrg00Y0dQ&feature=youtu.be&t=155

He ran what he ran.

yop wrote:

He was obviously capable he had all the tools a fast start, a 12m/s top speed and possibly the best speed endurance of any sprinter. For some reason he could never run well in a big race. When he ran relaxed he could run crazy times, he ran a 9.74 easing up at the end. That may have been his only shot at a 9.6, it could have been a 9.66 to 9.69. What do you guys think his potential was?

He ran real fast.

If we follow your premise, every fast starter would win every race.

A lot happens in a 100 m race. Sprinters have phases in their race that are great, and some not as great. At the elite level inches make a difference. And those inches are impacted by track type, weather, mind, breakfast etc.

His potential was exactly what he ran. He had plenty of opportunity to run fast.

He is in the record books in exactly the place he earned.

Relay splits are bs, forget about them.

Powell was an inferior competitor, but a superior short sprinter. His Lausanne and Rieti efforts were races of technical beauty—even, possibly, flawless.

Sure he could have gone 9.6x in Lausanne with more wind, just as Bailey would have gone 9.7x without a ton of false starts, or Blake 9.5x or 9.60 with some wind, or BJ 9.6x on a newer track.

Those are all realities—unlike Greene ever going faster than he did, “if only he didn’t tear his ham in Edmonton”. They would all have actually happened under different, and allowable, conditions—Greene otoh never would have gone faster because he proved himself incapable.

Short sprinting best top few performances:

#1 is unquestionably Dolt.

2-Powell

3-Gatlin

4-Gay

5-Flake

IMO. Yes I know about wind. Powell was amazing, as long as he was competing against only himself.

Say what YOU will, I've got Greene going 9.76/9.75 in Edmonton if he can run through the line unhampered. If we've got guys fanboying out and turning Powells 9.72 into a 9.64 with a +2.0 wind, then I say Greene gets his theoretical 9.75 in Edmonton.

On the parthenon of best guys of all time, drugs or no drugs, I've got Powell 9th or 10th, depending on if I'm still allowed to keep Ben Johnson involved. If I dont get to theorize about "eras", I still put him likely 5th or 6th. A 9.79 in '88, or Greenes 9.79 in '99 compares well to Powells bests, imo, especially given the golds and titles they ALSO ended up with which he missed out on.

In Greene's era, I equate Powell to Boldon. Who of course is no slouch. In black and white the 9.72 is wholly deserving of its praise, and Powell was a VERY aesthetically and technically pleasing sprinter to watch/analyze, to say the least. But context is key, and between 9.7s and 9.6s becoming the new 9.9s/9.8s and his atrocious record in championship events (especially relative to his PRs), I have a consistent desire to put others above him in a ranking sense.

Btw I would put Greene 6th, even though he sucked.

In terms of competitor, among those 6 guys:

1- Dolt, Flake, Gatlin, Gay, Greene in 5-way tie

6- Powell

Among all sprinters, he’s not even in the top 1,000,000.

Funny with my list, though—at their best I would take Flake over Gay every time. At their best, what would the average finishing order be after a series of, say, 10 races?

1- Dolt

2- Flake

3- Gatlin

4- Gay

5-Greene

6- Powell

Flake was really, really good, in a deep way. He also semi-jogged 9.8 in London, IIRC, and eased up many times. He had a complete peak race, and a desire to win. IMO he is the modern-day BJ, just a shade behind Dolt but would beat everybody else.

Yes I know he got beaten at times, but at his peak he was nothing short of amazing. The 200m WR-holder without RT. Think about that—he ran it faster than Dolt. Boss.

Been through it a million times. He was never going faster than he did in Edmonton. He tried, and failed due to intrinsic reasons. He would have gone faster had he had better wind in some of his other efforts, like the 9.79–that would have been 9.70-9.72 with max wind.

As far as ranking goes, yeah, IMO Powell is at the bottom of the list of those 6 guys—and well below Bailey, Lewis, BJ, Boldon, etc