El Guerrouj a couple seconds from 3000m world record (Video Included), why did he retire?

I hope you all eat crow when Cheptegei runs 26:10 in a couple of weeks.

Standard Setter wrote:

I hope you all eat crow when Cheptegei runs 26:10 in a couple of weeks.

Why would that mean that anyone is eating crow? Surely you cannot be that stupid?

Hardloper wrote:

very easy answer wrote:

I believe more than one of his training partners got popped, as well as strong implications that his coach was doping his athletes. In fact, Aden claimed that it was Kada (El G’s) coach that had doped Driouch, and not him. Though money to Diack would have resolved matters, he probably saw the writing in the wall. Going out with 2 x oly gold is the way to do it.

Which training partner got busted? Aden saying that means nothing to me

Off the top of my head: Kaouch. It has been such a long time since I’ve discussed this. Dig deeper, and you’ll see that it’s rotten to the core.

did the time I ain't kiddin wrote:

He must have known he would get popped eventually if he continued his career. Guilt of doping led to his retirement.

This. Actually, it was a bit further along. After his double gold in 2004, people at the IAAF told him 'enough, step down or else we'll reveal you are doping'. That is from someone I knew that worked at the IAAF and not very high up either.

Drugs do amazing things

Press article about El G prior to Sidney 2000 final

"The build-up to the race had not been ideal. He had problems with the Moroccan Federation, while a couple of days before the final he had to have a tooth removed as a result of having a brace fitted to straighten his teeth. "My mouth was full of ulcers," he explained. "I was more beautiful, but I lost the Olympic final."

https://www.independent.ie/sport/the-last-time-we-said-el-guerrouj-was-invincible--26250240.html

He had the 1500 and mile records (which still stand).

8 years in a row at number 1 in the world.

Finally got that 1500 Olympic Gold and topped it off with that 5000 win.

He did all he wanted to do and maybe didn’t want to go out like Morceli.

He’s the same age as Lagat who went on to make the finals in 3 more Olympic Games.

Certainly Lagat has suspected of doping all the while and others dope and get away with it.

I don’t think it was a fear of getting caught that was the reason for his retirement.

Bekele could have run 26:2x every year from 2003 to 2010. There wasn't anything special about 2008 other than that he made a true attempt at the world record. I'm sure he was on CERA, but he was obviously doping throughout his entire career, just like everyone else at the top.

Bekele's performances were provided as an example of how bad the testing was, even several years after 2004. There's no way El G quit because he was afraid of failing a test. It was never going to happen.

Hardloper wrote:

very easy answer wrote:

I believe more than one of his training partners got popped, as well as strong implications that his coach was doping his athletes. In fact, Aden claimed that it was Kada (El G’s) coach that had doped Driouch, and not him. Though money to Diack would have resolved matters, he probably saw the writing in the wall. Going out with 2 x oly gold is the way to do it.

Which training partner got busted? Aden saying that means nothing to me

Adil Kaouch got busted he was a training partner. In Ifrane the Boulamis were never more than 100m way on the practice track.

Star wrote:

He did all he wanted to do and maybe didn’t want to go out like Morceli.

You mean as in hospitalized with anemia, his natural red blood cell production having dwindled to zero after years of full throttle doping?

ElGuerroujFan wrote:

I just watched this video, where El Guerrouj comes within 2-3 seconds of the 3000m world record. This was the same year as his mile WR and he doesn't retire until a bit past 2004 Athens..

Why did he not have another go at it, especially given how close he was?

One reason is that the 3000m is not an important distance.

This year Kiplimo and Ingebrigtsen snuck into the all-time top-10 with performers with times 6 seconds slower than Komen, and nearly 4 seconds slower than El Guerrouj.

You don't see this magnitude of time gaps and this lack of depth at the top in events like 1500m or 5000m.

For those arguing that El G retired early, keep in mind that he entered the world scene as a junior in 1992, and competed through 2004. There are not that many pro-runners with careers longer than 12 years, and El G accomplished quite a lot in that time -- he was most prolific at the 1500m, still possessing about 1/3 of all of the sub-3:30 performances all-time (today he still has 35 of the top-111 fastest performances all time). The next best competitors like Lagat and Kiprop come in at less than 8.

It's also comical to compare and contrast suggestions that El G got so scared of EPO testing that he would walk away from lucrative 6-figure paydays, to suggestions that the IAAF was doing nothing to catch dopers in that timeframe, and it was so easy for athletes to evade detection, with short windows of detection in urine, and generous limits of suspicion with blood, looking at the examples of Russian women.

One reason is that the 3000m is not an important distance.

This year Kiplimo and Ingebrigtsen snuck into the all-time top-10 with performers with times 6 seconds slower than Komen, and nearly 4 seconds slower than El Guerrouj.

You don't see this magnitude of time gaps and this lack of depth at the top in events like 1500m or 5000m.[/quote}

Another reason might be that there were only a few full throttle doping in the EPO era, so any world class level runner full throttling - such as El G, Komen, or Ngeny, really stood out and ran ridiculous times.

Yes, that's true, if you deliberately obfuscate and stretch the definition of the stat in question, as you are a master at doing, and include junior careers as part of the athlete's entire length of career.

So it's comical to suggest that El G forsook 6 figure paydays because of recently introduced EPO and HGH testing, but it's entirely plausible to believe that he forsook 6 figure paydays because he 'had achieved everything he wanted to and wished to retire on top'???

Most North African greats openly stated that they were financially motivated and lived a flashy and opulent lifestyle (including El G), openly showcasing their multiple mansions in a country where the average yearly salary was under $1,000. In fact, it's often admitted here even by doping apologists that East Africans are solely motivated by financial rewards. I don't know of any great runner in history who decided to retire on top, certainly not when they could continue to command 6 figure appearance fees for a 3 1/2 minutes work.

Coevett for those of us who have achieved something in the sport, as I can tell you are not among us, it is not 3 1/2 minutes work. The races are difficult but rewarding. The training is often rather arduous. You have to have been in the arena to understand this, and clearly you have not been in the arena, which partially explains your ignorance.

Berrioer wrote:

Coevett for those of us who have achieved something in the sport, as I can tell you are not among us, it is not 3 1/2 minutes work. The races are difficult but rewarding. The training is often rather arduous. You have to have been in the arena to understand this, and clearly you have not been in the arena, which partially explains your ignorance.

+1

Most WR are probably tainted, it's a game of being one step ahead of the testers.

Coevett wrote:

I don't know of any great runner in history who decided to retire on top

Of course you don't know. You don't know much at all about professional athletes/T&F.

But there are many examples of athletes who retired on top.

Kongen wrote:

Coevett wrote:

I don't know of any great runner in history who decided to retire on top

Of course you don't know. You don't know much at all about professional athletes/T&F.

But there are many examples of athletes who retired on top.

Well list some then.

rekrunner wrote:

It's also comical to compare and contrast suggestions that El G got so scared of EPO testing that he would walk away from lucrative 6-figure paydays, to suggestions that the IAAF was doing nothing to catch dopers in that timeframe, and it was so easy for athletes to evade detection, with short windows of detection in urine, and generous limits of suspicion with blood, looking at the examples of Russian women.

Maybe it's not so comical to think El G was scared of EPO testing after seeing some of countrymen go down. Remember when Boulami went thermonuclear at Zurich setting the WR where the time, though annulled, still stands today:

Then there's speedy 12:49 Mourhit who tested IC for EPO in 2002. Asmae Leghzaoui was bagged for an IC EPO positive in 2003, and a very rare OOC positive for EPO nailed Abdelkader Hachlaf in 2004. And El G's training partner, Adil Kaouch, was bagged for a IC EPO positive in 2007.

Morocco = A culture of doping:

Berrioer wrote:

Coevett for those of us who have achieved something in the sport, as I can tell you are not among us, it is not 3 1/2 minutes work. The races are difficult but rewarding. The training is often rather arduous. You have to have been in the arena to understand this, and clearly you have not been in the arena, which partially explains your ignorance.

O.k., I didn't mean to suggest that elite athletics is easy or that athletes don't work hard, but El G 'didn't have anything left to prove', so why not continue for a couple more seasons dropping the intensity and picking up 6 figure pay cheques for showing up at big meets? In fact, if you look at the next 4 years, he certainly would have had a shot at equalling Coe and defending his title.

And my point stands that running is not boxing or MMA. El G wasn"t risking his health like a boxer going on too long.

Unless he was full throttle doping

And tbh, I doubt if many elite athletes (as you claim to be) would jump to the defence of an obvious doper like El G unless they were cheats too.