VANDERBILT former athlete exposes mentally harmful coaching in new article

Visisted Vandy wrote:

DanM wrote:

"Look, my paycheck and job security is determined by the performance of a bunch of young women. If I let everyone take a race or practice off when they were feeling depressed, I would lose my job. I can't let every little mental health problem get in the way of the end goal. Maybe you just aren’t cut out for this.”

Truer words were never spoken.

Untruer words were never spoken

Yeah, missing a few workouts in a season is really going to make a big difference in one's fitness. BS.

Brutal honesty can be crushing, especially to a person in a mentally fragile state. An obsessive attitude toward achievement is the cause of this young woman's problems. The coach was merely stating the truth about anyone employed in the Athletic Department of a major university.

A mental health problem is often caused by parents. What does she mean about how her parents "kept me motivated".

Brutal honesty can also be crushing to a coach's ego. She ran 4:57 for 1600 in high school. Her best mile at Vandy was 5:12! Great caring coaching right there folks!

Visisted Vandy wrote:

Brutal honesty can also be crushing to a coach's ego. She ran 4:57 for 1600 in high school. Her best mile at Vandy was 5:12! Great caring coaching right there folks!

Exactly this. What all you "tougher-than-thou" a-holes fail to understand is that mental health is within the realm of the coach's job. You know why NAU and BYU and these programs are doing well? Its because the coaches 'get' the athletes . They put the athletes and their wellbeing FIRST, not their own bonuses at the end of the year. Thats what a real coach does. If this vandy coach is so great at her job and should keep being 'tough' on her runners, then why do they do so poorly every year? Vandy started sliding in the SEC and south the same year she stepped foot on campus. This was never an issue under Rhonda Riley

Visisted Vandy wrote:

Brutal honesty can also be crushing to a coach's ego. She ran 4:57 for 1600 in high school. Her best mile at Vandy was 5:12! Great caring coaching right there folks!

BIG assumption coaching had anything to do with her getting slower. Greatest coach in the world is not going to help an athlete that is not getting enough sleep, not eating right, unused to being a little fish in a big pond, etc etc etc. Generally speaking a good percentage of incoming frosh women runners will not get better for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with the ability of the coach.

BS wrote:

Visisted Vandy wrote:

Brutal honesty can also be crushing to a coach's ego. She ran 4:57 for 1600 in high school. Her best mile at Vandy was 5:12! Great caring coaching right there folks!

BIG assumption coaching had anything to do with her getting slower. Greatest coach in the world is not going to help an athlete that is not getting enough sleep, not eating right, unused to being a little fish in a big pond, etc etc etc. Generally speaking a good percentage of incoming frosh women runners will not get better for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with the ability of the coach.

The old saying in baseball is: "Why was the manager fired ? Because you can't fire 25 players".

Viking21 wrote:

Give me a break. By her own admission, this girl was a train wreck long before she met her college coach. The real villains of this tale are barely mentioned. Her parents had to be aware of her mental struggles. They should never have allowed her to be dropped into the pressure cooker of D1 sports. What should the coach have done? Can she realistically be expected to be a mental health counselor and a track coach at the same time? Caring and supportive I can see, but should she allow an athlete to dictate her own training program and decide which races she wants to run? Should the rest of the team get the same treatment? I would like to hear from the coach and the other athletes, but it sounds like the coach was stuck between a rock and a hard place.

A coach does not have to be a mental health expert, but the coach can 1) set up an environment where mental health issues are not swept under the rug or considered a "weakness" and 2) the university can have resources available. The NCAA has recognized this is an issue as has the USOPC and several NGBs.

The coach should listen to the athlete and if that athlete is being constantly injured then the coach needs to assess what is going on. It seems so many coaches just put everyone on the same training program without understanding that individuals respond differently.

BS wrote:

Visisted Vandy wrote:

Brutal honesty can also be crushing to a coach's ego. She ran 4:57 for 1600 in high school. Her best mile at Vandy was 5:12! Great caring coaching right there folks!

BIG assumption coaching had anything to do with her getting slower. Greatest coach in the world is not going to help an athlete that is not getting enough sleep, not eating right, unused to being a little fish in a big pond, etc etc etc. Generally speaking a good percentage of incoming frosh women runners will not get better for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with the ability of the coach.

Yep, that's a MASSIVE assumption, ain't it? She goes off to College and her pr in the mile is approximately 3+ seconds slower per each 400m of a 4 lap race than it was in High School. 99% of runners would improve just on getting older and stronger alone.

Yeah, you got me there BS, that has nothing to do with Coaching and the workouts that they do to prepare them to race. You're so smart you must coach Division 1 somewhere, eh? What College do you coach at BS? Do tell.

BS wrote:

Visisted Vandy wrote:

Brutal honesty can also be crushing to a coach's ego. She ran 4:57 for 1600 in high school. Her best mile at Vandy was 5:12! Great caring coaching right there folks!

BIG assumption coaching had anything to do with her getting slower. Greatest coach in the world is not going to help an athlete that is not getting enough sleep, not eating right, unused to being a little fish in a big pond, etc etc etc. Generally speaking a good percentage of incoming frosh women runners will not get better for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with the ability of the coach.

A coach has limitations for sure. At the same, the coach sets the climate for the program.

Sometimes a sport or a school are not for you. This sounds like a simple situation that has turned into a soap opera because some girl couldn't hack it.

College is hard. D1 athletics are hard, it's not for everyone, nor should it be. Had he kicked her off the team he would be receiving the same criticism. The coach is stuck dealing with a "runner" that can't run.

NotPC wrote:

Sometimes a sport or a school are not for you. This sounds like a simple situation that has turned into a soap opera because some girl couldn't hack it.

College is hard. D1 athletics are hard, it's not for everyone, nor should it be. Had he kicked her off the team he would be receiving the same criticism. The coach is stuck dealing with a "runner" that can't run.

The Coach's workouts are what created the injuries and are why the runner can't run. Did you read the article?

Do you think she was the only runner hurt at Vandy due to overly hard workouts that create injuries? Wow, just WOW! I did very well academically but a few of you posters have made me feel "extra smart". Thanks!

Visisted Vandy wrote:

NotPC wrote:

Sometimes a sport or a school are not for you. This sounds like a simple situation that has turned into a soap opera because some girl couldn't hack it.

College is hard. D1 athletics are hard, it's not for everyone, nor should it be. Had he kicked her off the team he would be receiving the same criticism. The coach is stuck dealing with a "runner" that can't run.

The Coach's workouts are what created the injuries and are why the runner can't run. Did you read the article?

Do you think she was the only runner hurt at Vandy due to overly hard workouts that create injuries? Wow, just WOW! I did very well academically but a few of you posters have made me feel "extra smart". Thanks!

If by article you mean a one sided description of events from someone who has admitted to having emotional and mental issues, then I did indeed read it. I, for one, am not prepared to crucify her coach without hearing her side of the story and, preferably, what her teammates have to say. Her college coach did not create her fragile mental state. She arrived in a high pressure environment with that already in place, and that alone could account for a degradation in performance. If the sport you used to love is making you miserable, set it aside and reevaluate.

Now, if you can demonstrate a pattern of malfeasance on the part of this coach, lay it out so that we can all make a fair judgement. Credit where credit is due, it took guts to put that story out there and sign your name to it.

Visisted Vandy wrote:

NotPC wrote:

Sometimes a sport or a school are not for you. This sounds like a simple situation that has turned into a soap opera because some girl couldn't hack it.

College is hard. D1 athletics are hard, it's not for everyone, nor should it be. Had he kicked her off the team he would be receiving the same criticism. The coach is stuck dealing with a "runner" that can't run.

The Coach's workouts are what created the injuries and are why the runner can't run. Did you read the article?

Do you think she was the only runner hurt at Vandy due to overly hard workouts that create injuries? Wow, just WOW! I did very well academically but a few of you posters have made me feel "extra smart". Thanks!

Her problems started long before she arrived at Vanderbilt. She provided background on her mental state as early as 5th grade and how those feelings were intensified as the years went on, yet her parents are described as encouraging and helpful. Perhaps she is not giving an accurate picture of her family life. An unhealthy and damaging attitude toward achievement doesn't just happen, it is developed - almost always by parents.

Ask any 17 year old about their parents and you will find out that 95% of parents are mean people. Ask those same people 10 years later about their parents and 95% will tell you that their parents were doing what was best for them when they were 17 but they were too immature to see it. Many 20 year olds are too immature to realize that adults are not bad people.

NotPC wrote:

Sometimes a sport or a school are not for you. This sounds like a simple situation that has turned into a soap opera because some girl couldn't hack it.

College is hard. D1 athletics are hard, it's not for everyone, nor should it be. Had he kicked her off the team he would be receiving the same criticism. The coach is stuck dealing with a "runner" that can't run.

No doubt that D1 athletics are hard. Also, I think the coach is a female.

As I noted in one post, finding the correct match between school and coach is critical. Not sure there is anything simple about it.

Mental health concerns are a societal problem and largely stigmatized. So many seem to assume that high level athletes must "have it made". How could someone leading such a "cush life" have problems? The less connection the person has with elite level athletes I think the more prevalent (just a hypothesis).

There are lots of stories of college-level and elite-level athletes dealing with mental health issues. Many athletes have gone public with their fights with depression. Many athletes have committed suicide---and these include athletes in non-CTE sports.

The NCAA has recognized this and developed some good resources, but colleges, and specifically coaches, must are the ones who must 1) change the climate that allows for athletes to seek help without stigmatization and 2) provide the mental health professionals to help the student-athletes. (Note: this is a serious issue for all college students based on the data available).

Coaches at all levels need to look at the athlete as a person and not just something to mold. There is a saying I like "You coach a person not a sport". Unfortunately so few coaches are trained as COACHES ; oh they might know how to write a training program or teach the slide, but they have little understanding of 1) how to teach ---a separate issue from this one---2) and how important the interpersonal relationship is on success.

A coach can still have standards and how athletes accountable. This is not saying the athletes are running the show. At the same time no one knows their body better than the person in the body. So if the athlete comes and says "I am just not feeling on then the coach should adapt". Bowerman was a master of this. He knew how to individualize training; he knew how to connect to the athletes too. (He did some things that I am not a fan of like the hot keys in the steam room BS). He was not going to be the coach for everyone (which is fine, we need different personalities).

The key is being "athlete-centered". Putting the needs of the athlete first.

If one athlete deals with emotional problems, they need to get help. If multiple athletes have problems, then the coach needs to get help.

This isn't the 70s anymore, we are well aware of how prolific emotional problems are in college students and athletes. Universities have the resources to get help and accommodate students. Yes, it's a challenging environment. But you can't just tell people to get bent when they're only 90% up to the task.

There have been days when my coach wouldn't show up to practice because he took a mental health day, and he was a state champion in high school, 14 flat guy/conference champ in college. He managed to be successful doing that, so a girl can miss practice once in a while.

Showing a little kindness towards your athletes doesn't get in the way of coaching. Pushing your athletes off the edge does. When one of your athletes fails, it's your fault for not being a good enough coach.

Beyond the perspective of the athlete in question, we really don't know what kind of effort the coach made to help this runner. Does anyone have any input from current or former athletes in this program? No matter your skills as a coach, you can't help everyone and you can't fix everything. If I have an athlete experience a bad day or suffer from injury, I try to structure their workout accordingly. I do still expect them to show up. Did this coach make no effort to do the same? We just don't know. I can't say that I've ever had a runner tell me what their workout was going to be or what race they planned to run, so I have no insight there.

The one thing I would question is after two years plus it’s clear she wasn’t a d1 runner mentally or physically. It doesn’t knock I’m her in any way, but day 1 you have no one to run with and can’t stay up at all? That’s not the coaches fault. 2). She was mentally ill before hand - division 1 wasn’t the place for her the pressure and amount of time between academics and athletics is awful if you aren’t ready for

3). More of my concerns - she hated study hall, she hated the workout her coach was giving - she signed up for that when accepting a scholarship - but being mentally unhealthy making you go to the things you hate maybe wasn’t the right thing for her (being on the team and all the responsibilities that come with that). I agree with above poster - I blame her parents for not stepping in

By no means am I saying the coach was right - and 100 percent the coach did not deal with the conversations jr year correctly and should have given her time off - And referee her to health services - but maybe the coach three years in finally was like - this isn’t for you - running d1 -

Exactly, this is a definitive hatchet job. Viewing it as at all balanced reporting would be a major error. Her perspective is her own and it's her right to express it, she should be applauded for speaking up. I want to know if she wasn't getting receptive response from her event coach did she then take it up with the head coach or someone up the athletic department food chain? The coaches and others around her in that environment certainly have a right to have their view heard, as well. Any comment as to the perceived problems in the program on this message board is made in ignorance.

here wrote:

Then don’t write a blog crying about it after you just received 250k in free university and a coach was a little mean to you.

Based on her times, she wasnt close to a full ride