Cranny is probably one of the most talented HS runners of all time. She ran the #3 US AT 1500 mark in HS, was something like 10th in XC as a freshman, ran 8:58 for the 3000 indoors as a freshman (2nd to Dom Scott), then struggled to improve. She did have some decent 4:09-ish results near the end of college and got 2nd and 3rd at NCAAs. She had a lot of talent in there, just had injuries and Milt is a mediocre coach in my opinion.
dirylllll wrote:
They are definitely dirty unfortunately.
Unless you mean Lopez’s socks, you’re way off, dude.
I think it’s just a story perpetrated from the public. Basically we know Salazar did some stuff that pushed the boundaries of legality, but none of his athletes have been found to be taking illegal stuff. There’s this automatic assumption that his whole group is dirty, which I find hard to believe. Especially after the let’s run interview with Mike Smith. He grilled Galen with questions and decided that he would be someone he could coach. If Galen were to be found dirty now, he would lose his job of the top NCAA team and probably never find a coaching job again.
With Schumacher’s group, the athletes are a lot more open on social media. They have a YouTube channel putting out content, Jorgensen has a YouTube channel, Quigley has her website, etc.
When you ask the question “what is each group doing” and you see BTC posting all these videos about core strength, weights, workouts from YouTube, there’s less guess work.
When you look at NOP and their athletes aren’t as active on social media and rarely post about what they’re doing on any platform, combined with a coach who is known to push the limits of legality, it’s pretty easy to assume they’re doping.
Something just doesn’t sit right with me about all the accusations though. They have this huge report and the only one they can lay blame on is the coach, and it’s for L-Carnitine injections, which there is little evidence that they even work, and apply testosterone to his sons.
Another thing that struck me when rewatching the rio Olympics was the announcers talking about how Mo would be knighted. If he was found dirty after his knighting, it would be a HUGE scandal not only on Mo and UKAD, but to the British government as well. It just doesn’t add up that there’s some massive coverup conspiracy that NOP guys were all dirty
best coach ever? wrote:
Seriously, it's getting ridiculous now. It was already hard to grasp that Karissa Schweizer did 8:25 and Vanessa Fraser 14:48 in february (+of course Woody Kincaid 12:58 last year), but now even fcking Elise Cranny can run 14:48 with something like a ~2:47 last k?? Did Jerry Schumacher figure out the holy grail of training or are they just on the normal nike doping regime?
Alberto has been helping out and advising Schumacher
more of the new nike spring sprikes.
get ready for some WRs soon.
i mean they're probably doping but they also have literal springs on their feet
The Nike air pods or whatever on the new victory spikes and the alpha fly are definitely suspect, I wouldn’t say that the dragonfly spikes with zoomx cushioning are in any way cheating though. The interesting thing is that pressurized air has been a thing in Nike shoes for a looong time. Even airmax’s in the 90s use pressurized air for cushioning. Carbon fibre plates/shanks have also been utilized in spikes before the Vaporfly was finalized and released to the public.
It seems like there’s a narrative of Alphafly is cheating, so now carbon fibre plates and compressed air is cheating. But people fail to recognize that they were already implanted before
birdbeard wrote:
Cranny is probably one of the most talented HS runners of all time. She ran the #3 US AT 1500 mark in HS, was something like 10th in XC as a freshman, ran 8:58 for the 3000 indoors as a freshman (2nd to Dom Scott), then struggled to improve. She did have some decent 4:09-ish results near the end of college and got 2nd and 3rd at NCAAs. She had a lot of talent in there, just had injuries and Milt is a mediocre coach in my opinion.
Milt may be part of the reason she's ran so well. I expect Fisher and McGorty to improve too. He sets them up to have something left when they turn pro. When you have a girl running 4:10 out of HS you have to play it careful. She would have definitely ran 4:03-4:05 and maybe had a couple NCAA titles with a no-injury stint at Stanford and Milt pushing her super hard, but she also has pretty of room to improve now. Stanford is also not the easiest school to go to.
I would point out that after cranny got 12th in XC and ran 8:58 and got 2nd in the NCAA 3k as a true frosh, she struggled to have more than 6 months of consistent training at any given point of her college career. She came into the fall injured every year until her red shirt senior year (when she got 11th) and didn't race until PAC 12's and then would get somewhere around 50-60th at nationals. Even with constant injuries by spring she managed to get 2nd and 3rd in the NCAA 1500. As a sophomore she was hundredths of a second away from the title. She is wildly talented and from 2018 indoors to this past fall she was finally able to put together 18+ months of healthy training, before getting a small injury in the winter which only cost her a month or 2. I think we are just seeing a very talented runner benefit from consistent training for the first time since high school
SoCan1 wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
Cranny is probably one of the most talented HS runners of all time. She ran the #3 US AT 1500 mark in HS, was something like 10th in XC as a freshman, ran 8:58 for the 3000 indoors as a freshman (2nd to Dom Scott), then struggled to improve. She did have some decent 4:09-ish results near the end of college and got 2nd and 3rd at NCAAs. She had a lot of talent in there, just had injuries and Milt is a mediocre coach in my opinion.
Milt may be part of the reason she's ran so well. I expect Fisher and McGorty to improve too. He sets them up to have something left when they turn pro. When you have a girl running 4:10 out of HS you have to play it careful. She would have definitely ran 4:03-4:05 and maybe had a couple NCAA titles with a no-injury stint at Stanford and Milt pushing her super hard, but she also has pretty of room to improve now. Stanford is also not the easiest school to go to.
exactly-no need to peak at 22, and though she had some injuries in her sophomore and junior years, she had a solid finish to college in 2018; it would be a challenge to balance high level running and Stanford studies and not too surprising that she got this result after having a year injury-free given her potential...
Yes, agree with comments above, adding that her 8:58/indoor 3k at NCAAs her frosh year is still the American U-20 record.
Also, realize she grew up in Niwot, CO, elevation over 5,000 ft. Had tons of hikes/runs up mountain trails throughout her lifetime. So, going up to Park City at 7k-8k elevation for training camps would be no big adjustment for her.
As was noted, she missed BTC's Jan-Feb winter training camp in CO Springs due to injury. Got her self right for their just-concluded spring training camp at Park City. Probably recovered more quickly from that training than everyone else.
Still, stunning to go from 15:25 to 14:48, especially given that her prior race was the US-Europe meet last September where she kicked in for the 3k win in 9-flat.
Pretty sure now that Jerry will have Elise do what Shelby did four years ago; i.e., concentrate on the 5k this year and next -- meaning she'll run the 5k at the Trials -- then move back down to the 1500m as Shelby has done the past couple years.
Anyone have any good info/links on Jerry’s training?
who cares, nobody saw it. If a runner runs fast and no one is watching does it really happen? like a tree i don't know.
plunkstwr wrote:
Anyone have any good info/links on Jerry’s training?
10 miles of threshold/cv pace work mostly in 1-2 mile reps and 5 miles of speed and hills with a long run. Not complicated, but you better buckle up.
Jerry has an incredible group of women right now who are working together positively and staying healthy. They are doing incredibly. When you get numerous American women to run sub 14:50, you are doing a lot of things right. Cranny was nowhere near this level. 4:06 predicts more like low 15. Schweizer has improved enormously to 8:25 and likely 14:30s. Houlihan has improved enormously to 3:54!! 8:26? and 14:34. To get Fraser, Cranny, and others to this level is incredible at once. And the men have had serious injury problems over the years and other than Jager they were down for years, but since last year they have impressed. McGorty at 13:11 with big negative splits is solid. He's a 3:53 miler indoors from college, though. But Woody Kincaid, Centro, and Lopez Lomong seemingly half a decade or more past his prime running 13 flat or better was incredible and likely we'll see more impressive times July 10. Obviously, Mo Ahmed's performance at World's was great.
Yeah the BTC is doing amazing right now.
But Cranny did not come out of nowhere. Probably in the top 10-20 distance running talents coming out of HS ever.
Here is a video interview Jerry did back in May -- one of the very few times he has "appeared" in public and discussed his training principles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3atw9EUX4LApe
And, yes, Elise is a historically great high school runner, currently ranking as the 5th fastest outdoor performer ever after Cain, Efraimson, Kate Murphy, and Christina Aragon.
To a degree, she was overlooked for awhile due to the others mentioned above along with Sarah Baxter, Katie Rainsberger and Ella Donaghue who came along at or soon after she graduated.
2013 - 2016 was the greatest era of girls' miling in US hs history.
people need to remember the shoes yielding 4% + benefit. In a 15min 5k that's 12-15 sec per mile.
Coureur des bois wrote:
Keep in mind they just came off a stint at altitude.
Paula Radcliffe has entered the forum.
Can we talk about the free-range organic salad with artisanal hand-kneaded rye croutons Schumacher is cultivating these days?
For all the whiners the men's video to be premiered today...