I ran 5:45/mi pace for 7 miles in my buildup for the original marathon that i was supposed to run in May before it was cancelled. I was intending to extend the distance by a mile every week before tapering but i scrapped it once the marathon was cancelled and went back to base training mode averaging 50-55 mpw at the moment.
The 7aji wrote:
Crapgame wrote:
But why not shoot to break 2:25...or better yet, 2:20? I mean, if we can pick a goal and train for those paces why limit yourself to 5:45 pace?
Current ability and self inflicted time constraints. If I achieve that 2:30 marathon, then 2:20 would be my next goal. Its your choice to set a ceiling for your abilities
You have to escape that negative mindset that 2:20 is not possible. Just because no one else has tried it doesn’t mean it can’t be done
Admirable goal for sure, and I think you'd be well served by focusing on your speed first like another poster said.
If you can work on your speed and somehow run a 1:10 half within the next 2-3 months, then maybe you can run 2:30!
You certainly have your work cut out for you, chopping 10 minutes off your HM PR is a tall order indeed.....
I too am new to running. 11 months into it. Similar to you I started off at a 1:30 in a HM 4 months in, then ran 1:23 6 months in, blew up and ran 3:14 in a marathon in February and then ran a 1:16:40 HM a few weeks ago. I too would like to run a quick marathon in December. Heck, maybe even at CIM. We actually have a pretty similar background.
The idea that I would aim to run 2:30-2:35 in December is patently ludicrous. What Is my goal? To improve over the next two training cycles by running consistently higher mileage with higher variability between my quality days and easy days. Maybe I’ll set a target 4-8 weeks out based on how training is going. Why wouldn’t you take a similar approach?
Thank you! I ran my 1:25 half marathon debut last october training for a 1:30 only to be surprised that i finished 5 minutes ahead of my goal. I resumed that mindset hopping into the next buildup and almost cut off another 5 minutes. I'm not trying to prove that i'm superior. But people really need to believe that there are many ways to reach a goal some shorter and some longer but all can be right.
I know i'm not entitled to a 2:30 marathon but i'm willing to do what it takes given my current abilities to reach that goal by december with reasonable mileage given my current aerobic power.
Yeah i think given that i have a lot of time until december i could hop into another half marathon plan and build more speed.
Worm if you run CIM you're going sub 2:40, that course is crazy fast!!! Plus your half was only a TT, I know you're a great TTer but race day adrenaline would have made that a little faster.
I think your plan is spot on.
You don't want to increase milage too drastically as you are still in the early stage of your development.
Your PR is quite impressive given your experience, and you should have no problem smashing that PR with more experience and moderate mileage increase.
So you spend several hours a week swimming and walking but you’re adamant that you don’t want to run higher mileage?
You’re new to running, so 100mpw would be too strong of a stimulus. But there’s no reason why you can’t run 80ish.
My race in december is CIM. My training looks similar to yours and there's nothing wrong with your approach. I personally like setting paces both for racing and in training. To get perfectly even splits in training so that i can translate that to a race. Yes there will be bad days and yes there will be great days. But i stick to it. And i have never left a workout incomplete even if i was tired and couldn't hit the paces i wanted. That might not work for everyone i understand that, but it doesn't mean it's not workable. It motivates me.
Yeah for real, walking is basically pointless, swap out the walking for some very easy, relaxed running.
SouthernFriedRealist wrote:
So you spend several hours a week swimming and walking but you’re adamant that you don’t want to run higher mileage?
You’re new to running, so 100mpw would be too strong of a stimulus. But there’s no reason why you can’t run 80ish.
I'm too worried about going into stress fracture territory. I like increasing mileage slowly. I'd rather increase intensity with the same mileage rather than increase my mileage. And what helps me do that is the durability built doing all those other things.
SouthernFriedRealist wrote:
So you spend several hours a week swimming and walking but you’re adamant that you don’t want to run higher mileage?
You’re new to running, so 100mpw would be too strong of a stimulus. But there’s no reason why you can’t run 80ish.
80 a week whilst new to running?!
Yes, it's a tall order, mate, like many have said. In running, progress starts out as a monsoon for beginners. Over time, that "monsoon of gains" slows to a trickle as you progress. Keep that in mind.
But there's nothing so inspiring as a valiant effort and I thought this was a thread about someone trying to give it their all, not a b*tch and moan session for the negative nellies.
Here's what I'd have you do.
For the next two months, build mileage up to about 55mpw average, the goal being ultimately to do a HM TT around late July. Those two months would consist of three workouts per week--one day for speed, one day for threshold/hills and one longish run (12-15 miles). The rest easy, with strides two times/week after the easy run. (By the way, do you have hills nearby?)
After the HM TT, i'd reassess and start introducing a bit more Marathon specific pacing, while keeping in speed, threshold and hills. More emphasis on endurance, less on speed. I'd probably have you cut down from three workouts to two/week--Daniels-esque approach where the two sessions are longer and contain a mix of threshold and MP. Mileage would build to 65-70MPW average, with a sprinkling of down weeks to give your body some time to rest.
Those are my two cents.
By the way, in the next few days, I'd do a fitness check. 8 easy + 3@6'18 + 1 easy + 3 @ 6'08. It would be interesting to see your HR data for the harder miles.
Han Lonestar wrote:
Yes, it's a tall order, mate, like many have said. In running, progress starts out as a monsoon for beginners. Over time, that "monsoon of gains" slows to a trickle as you progress. Keep that in mind.
But there's nothing so inspiring as a valiant effort and I thought this was a thread about someone trying to give it their all, not a b*tch and moan session for the negative nellies.
Here's what I'd have you do.
For the next two months, build mileage up to about 55mpw average, the goal being ultimately to do a HM TT around late July. Those two months would consist of three workouts per week--one day for speed, one day for threshold/hills and one longish run (12-15 miles). The rest easy, with strides two times/week after the easy run. (By the way, do you have hills nearby?)
After the HM TT, i'd reassess and start introducing a bit more Marathon specific pacing, while keeping in speed, threshold and hills. More emphasis on endurance, less on speed. I'd probably have you cut down from three workouts to two/week--Daniels-esque approach where the two sessions are longer and contain a mix of threshold and MP. Mileage would build to 65-70MPW average, with a sprinkling of down weeks to give your body some time to rest.
Those are my two cents.
This sounds like a good approach.
However, why not push the HM TT a few months back? OP needs to be significantly faster over the HM (1:11 territory) so why not take some more time to work on his speed?
It think you should target the HM TT for late August/early September
All in one run (15 total) over the next few days? I haven't done a tempo run in 4 weeks and my longest long run was 20 miles, 6 weeks ago plus its getting hotter now.
For my short 400-1200 interval repeats that i have been doing weekly however, i averaged 180. My max heart rate is around 200 and i averaged 188 in my half marathon in december. I considered a Hadd style approach a long time ago but that's too much easy running for me for such a long time that i didn't wanna risk losing speed.
Going back to your fitness test suggestion i don't think i'm capable of doing that workout now mostly because of the volume. I trained for my december half marathon in flat manhattan and now i'm stuck in the hills of southern france.
Back for that december HM my peak intensity workout was 6 miles at 5:55-6:00 pace with a 2 mile WU and 2 mile CD. Longest run in that cycle was 18 miles.
I'll be going back to terrain similar to manhattan in a month or so though, so that should be a more reliable place to do a similar workout.
I agree with Rhodium. My only add would be that for a first marathon at 60ish miles a week I think you will need to be quite a bit better than 1:11 for the HM for it to convert appropriately. Maybe 1:09 to hit low 2:30s? Would be curious what others think.
Ya i think that is a more relaible time frame for a time trial, buys me more time to get back to flatter terrain and i'll have more stuff at my disposal as gyms and the world starts opening back up
highhoppingworm wrote:
I agree with Rhodium. My only add would be that for a first marathon at 60ish miles a week I think you will need to be quite a bit better than 1:11 for the HM for it to convert appropriately. Maybe 1:09 to hit low 2:30s? Would be curious what others think.
That would translate to a nice clean 5:20 pace. Good to frame workouts around.
The 7aji wrote:
Ya i think that is a more relaible time frame for a time trial, buys me more time to get back to flatter terrain and i'll have more stuff at my disposal as gyms and the world starts opening back up
I would also recommend working on running fast on some downhills so your quads get used to that kind of pounding. Train for the course! CIM is full of downhills kinda like Boston, except CIM is way faster.