With a 2 step run up, Salazar said this post race! Is this how he suddenly got so fast a kick- by smashing shot reps at the end of workouts?
With a 2 step run up, Salazar said this post race! Is this how he suddenly got so fast a kick- by smashing shot reps at the end of workouts?
If that is true, then I think they need to consider moving Rupp down in distance and getting away from what appears to be the highly and overly competitive distance events. If he does have that kind of leg speed, then why not consider the 800 and 1500 as your specialty events?
pace for 11
bust wrote:
Is this how he suddenly got so fast a kick-
No. He suddenly got so fast of a kick because he is now in 12:58 shape rather than 13:10 shape, so when he runs a 13:22 he's not tired going into the last 2 laps.
Why do you create a thread that is going to bait sprintgeezer into a mindless waste of time?
By the way, sprintgeezer is a great poster when he talks about sprinters or solinskrap, but is no good at talking about distance runners' sprinting capabilities.
Because of an 11.1? Webb ran that during a 1500.
Distance Analyst wrote:
If that is true, then I think they need to consider moving Rupp down in distance and getting away from what appears to be the highly and overly competitive distance events. If he does have that kind of leg speed, then why not consider the 800 and 1500 as your specialty events?
a flying 100 in 11 seconds isn't that impressive. yes, it probably very good for a distance runner, but you need some "leg speed veolcity" to run as fast as rupp has for 1500 through 10,000
Hook line and sinker wrote:
Why do you create a thread that is going to bait sprintgeezer into a mindless waste of time?
By the way, sprintgeezer is a great poster when he talks about sprinters or solinskrap, but is no good at talking about distance runners' sprinting capabilities.
Hey, come on now! This is what I posted on another Rupp thread:
"That was a beautiful race, by all the competitors.
Although Rupp won and seemed to have a good finish, IMHO it was Lagat's inconsistent speed that made Rupp look great. Lagat had a great burst at the end of the last turn, but then began to tie up, and faded by his own doing. All Rupp did was to be smooth and consistent, and to not panic.
Well played by Rupp, but not by Lagat. Had Lagat waited until there had been 50 or less meters to go, he would have won the race. Rupp did not demonstrate that quick acceleration that would enable him to match any such kick.
Congratulations to Rupp for not trying to match Lagat's move, but for staying smooth and reeling him in by the finish.
I must say that to me, Rupp looked GREAT on the back straight, I mean really GREAT. Knowing very little about 5k/10k, I could see Rupp medaling in a fast race, maybe even gold in a really fast race.
But if it ends up being tactical, like everybody predicts, I think his competitors (including Lagat) will see tape of this race and will wait until the straight to blow by him. Of course there will be more group dynamics in the Olympic final, but it looks to me that if Rupp wants to replicate this type of performance in London, he will need to be in the lead in the final turn, and thereby make sure that nobody is very far in front of him. He might be able to make up a meter or two with this type of performance relative to Lagat's type of performance, but one more meter on the Olympic field? I don't think so.
Very fun race to watch.
Go Rupp!"
Again, a flying 100m does not at all say much about acceleration ability, especially some hand time. I notice that the claims have now gone from 10.9 to 11.1 Whatever.
Rupp definitely played to his strength, though, which I think is speed endurance at a relatively high speed for a 5k runner. Lagat played to his strength, too, which is the quick acceleration...but either overestimated his own speed maintenance profile in the last 100m, underestimated Rupp's, or both.
Again, it was not sprinting. Lagat comes close, which is why he can blow by Rupp when he is in that mode...but of course he cannot keep it up for more than a couple of seconds, and by then his reserves are gone and he must either revert back to a more economical running form to try to maintain some of the speed, or lose significant amounts of speed by trying to maintain a form even close to that of sprinting.
But think about this: if, IF Rupp actually has any significant ability to hold a reasonable amount of speed, what would he do in the 800, which doesn't depend too much on acceleration from the standing start? The 400 would be out, he would absolutely get eaten alive...but the 800?
I know some of you want to see him in the 1500, but I want to see what he's got in the 800, given how he looked on that back straight. Man, if he could keep up that back straight form for 2 laps...
so what do you think geezer for his 800m? 1:46.5? i wonder what ventolin suggests..
Geezer, I'm not buying your argument that Lagat lost because he mistimed his 30m spurt. He ran a 52 second last lap. Are you saying he could have run FASTER than that if he merely timed his short kick later? Silly. 30m of kick was all he had at that pace, and if he hadn't used it when he did, he would have had to deal with Rupp being further ahead.
Yeah, I used the phrase "30m spurt" in this post.
Here's a video before the 10K at nationals last year.
den bosch wrote:
pace for 11
bust wrote:Is this how he suddenly got so fast a kick-
No. He suddenly got so fast of a kick because he is now in 12:58 shape rather than 13:10 shape, so when he runs a 13:22 he's not tired going into the last 2 laps.
Exactly. That's something that for whatever reason people overlook...the most simple answer. I think it's that he's more like 12:52 shape instead of 13 flat, but same principle. People always rave about how Bekele has such an amazing kick years ago. It's because he was a 12:37 guy running against guys 20 seconds slower most of the time and 1255's were nothing to him.
That's not as impressive as it sounds.
Add .3 for manual timing. Add .3 for reaction time. Add .3 for rolling start.
It's probably equivalent to a 12.0 out of blocks with automatic timing
Mrr82 wrote:
den bosch wrote:pace for 11
No. He suddenly got so fast of a kick because he is now in 12:58 shape rather than 13:10 shape, so when he runs a 13:22 he's not tired going into the last 2 laps.
Exactly. That's something that for whatever reason people overlook...the most simple answer. I think it's that he's more like 12:52 shape instead of 13 flat, but same principle. People always rave about how Bekele has such an amazing kick years ago. It's because he was a 12:37 guy running against guys 20 seconds slower most of the time and 1255's were nothing to him.
This is the biggest thing that people in our sport get so confused about. Yes you have to have that raw speed to accelerate into but the main thing that determines your ability to "kick" is your aerobic ability. You always hear people talk about "I have no kick" or "I need to work on my kick" but they don't realize what a kick is. It's mainly just having more left at the end of a race.
Enjoy it now, Mr. Rupp. 2016 will be the Bernie Montoya Show!
Dhhdjd wrote:
That's not as impressive as it sounds.
Add .3 for manual timing. Add .3 for reaction time. Add .3 for rolling start.
It's probably equivalent to a 12.0 out of blocks with automatic timing
Thats a little extreme. .1 for manual, the timing thing was always extreme because of fast fingers. most reaction times are also .1-.2. In fact lighter weight people will probably react faster. .3 for rolling start is accurate at those speeds and with a typical distance start.
11.6-11.7 out of the blocks. At the end of a workout thats fairly impressive. At the beginning lets give him 11 flat. With some block work and a couple weeks of weight lifting 10.6. A couple months and 10.4 is possible.
Some talent is not restricted to distance.
WR No wrote:
Dhhdjd wrote:That's not as impressive as it sounds.
Add .3 for manual timing. Add .3 for reaction time. Add .3 for rolling start.
It's probably equivalent to a 12.0 out of blocks with automatic timing
Thats a little extreme. .1 for manual, the timing thing was always extreme because of fast fingers. most reaction times are also .1-.2. In fact lighter weight people will probably react faster. .3 for rolling start is accurate at those speeds and with a typical distance start.
11.6-11.7 out of the blocks. At the end of a workout thats fairly impressive. At the beginning lets give him 11 flat. With some block work and a couple weeks of weight lifting 10.6. A couple months and 10.4 is possible.
Some talent is not restricted to distance.
Galen could never run 10.4, Not even a chance.
bust wrote:so what do you think geezer for his 800m? 1:46.5? i wonder what ventolin suggests..
this run doesn't really change much, except that i reckon he's gotta be in ~ 3'33.0 shape in perfect race
( his 3'34.75 was ~ 3'34.2 at even pace & he lost few tenths by andrews "blocking" him in the stretch )
his 5k coud be anywhere between 12'45/12'50, so coupla extremes for lines of fit i get are :
51.6 / 1'48.7 ->
3'33.2
4'50.0
7'27.0
12'50.3
26'49.3
( i don't believe his 10k has deteriorated to 26'49, despite speedwork emphasis, so by implication, i reckon much quicker than 12'50 )
to
51.9 / 1'48.9 ->
3'32.9
4'49.1
7'24.9
12'44.9
26'33.6
personally, i'm inclined more towards these
~ 12'45 & not that far off 26'30
as for 400/800 speed, it's not that remarkable - high-51 & high-1'48
with that kinda 400 speed, looking at elite women 400 runners, something like mid/high 11
for a 100 ( leaning towards high-11, as he woud have better endurance than sprinters & coud run their same 400 off slower 100 )
One of the utmost basic principles of distance running is that running faster makes you more tired. People were wondering in shock how the field dropped Rupp so much during the WC 5K, but overlooked the fact that he was simply tired. He led 80% of the race, dropped back in the pack then used energy to accelerate back to the lead.
He didn't pull a 52.5 last lap because he's "faster", he just has more energy to rip a 52 at a slower pace.
People claim Rupp has a serious shot at a medal at the Olympics, but remember, these are people who can maintain a blistering pace and STILL rip a 53-54.
If he trained specifically for it yes he could.
Muscle Fiber adapts. The key part of talent is CNS. Talented runners distance, sprints, mid-distance, have superior CNS and body control.
Rupp may not be pretty to look at it, and he may be a dork, but he's a talented dork.
Vent--
Although I have absolutely no respect for your fantaculations when it comes to sprinting, I offer no judgment with respect to mid-d or distance.
How good do you think you are at predicting 800m performance off distance performance, for those runners who are primarily distance runners?
While Rupp breaking 12 seconds from blocks is not possible, I find it difficult to believe that he could only run a 51.9 400m--actually, I find it almost impossible to believe.
The guy goes 52.x at the end of a 5k, and you don't think that he could shave off at least a second, if he were fresh? I could see him going 50 easily, and I see him being able to do repeat 53's pretty easily also, just based on seeing how people run 400's, which would give a 1:46
No? I am entirely willing to, relatively unquestioningly, accept a slapdown on this one, for I readily admit that I don't have really any background on distance runners' 400/800 abilities.