Which...hi mileage w/singles or higher w/doubles?

Doubles.

I can't give you any advice, but you're awesome.

With doubles you teach your body to recover faster and you are able to do more work. 13 in one run is harder than 15 in 2 but you should be able to do 20 in 2 which will give you more benefit than the 13 in one. After a few weeks of doubles, a single will feel like a day off.

Time constraints aside, the one longer single run does tend to tire me out more than the shorter doubles. The only other thing worth mentioning is that my morning run tends to be fairly slow (~7:30 pace) as I can't fall out of bed and run hard. Overall pace on the longer single averages much better as does the p.m. run on a double day.

Then doubles it is?

This feedback is very appreciated.

How about this: do two weeks of singles, then do two weeks of doubles, then report back.

Are your anticipated restraints physical or logistical? Do you have mileage goals in mind, or is the plan to just do as much as your body and schedule will allow? From the sounds of it now, you should be way over 80 per week, running the schedule you outlined. I think a mix of longer runs (13-15) and doubles (totaling 15-17 in a day) is the way to go. As the other guy stated, the doubles allow your body to recover more than the one longer run, but you're obviously aware of the physiological benefits of that one medium-distance run. So, it seems the way to go is to do something like you have already described with 2 runs of +/- 13 miles and a few doubles, in addition to the weekly long run.

This actually kinda outlines what I've been doing the last few weeks and will continue to do in the next few months, while the racing load is light. I was able to get in 90 last week with 8 runs, and this week, will be around 100 with 10 runs, just because I think I'll have more time available to do those extra runs. I've been getting in 11-13 miles 2-3 times during the weekdays, and a long run on the weekend. The other question which should probably be asked is: Do you/we do the doubles on the days when the medium-long run is involved? I'm not sure of the best answer to that one, but I just run as much as I can, when I can - my social/family schedule is dictating my training schedule mostly. If I had my preference though, I'd rather have the addition run done on top of the long weekday runs, to make the hard days hard and the easy days as easy as possible. You know, the "easy 12" the next day!

Good luck with the winter running, Gary. It's only just begun, and I think we're going to have a long cold one ahead of us. What's on the winter race schedule? Shoot me an email if you want to chat more. Best of luck in '06!

Greg

malmo wrote:

How about this: do two weeks of singles, then do two weeks of doubles, then report back.

Was this a rhetirical request, meaning you already know the answer? Or were you suggesting the answer may depend on his individual/physical preference? Sorry malmo, I'm just not sure what you intended by the advice in your response.

distance guy wrote:

Was this a rhetirical request, meaning you already know the answer? Or were you suggesting the answer may depend on his individual/physical preference? Sorry malmo, I'm just not sure what you intended by the advice in your response.

All of it.

I've been VERY fortunate that I've been pretty injury free but am worried about the mileage changing that. More importantly, I've found that the long single runs leave me VERY listless (like the stare at the wall and not blink for 4 hours listless). I want to maiximiz the amount of runing I can do and still enjoy my life. I DO believe I can have both as I tend to workout at very odd hours and have a flexible schedule.

At this point, I'm thinking of probably going the same route as you Greg (albeit slower!).

Thank you VERY much Malmo. If this is THE Malmo, I'm extremely humbled.

Stop & the clowns'll get me wrote:

I've been VERY fortunate that I've been pretty injury free but am worried about the mileage changing that. More importantly, I've found that the long single runs leave me VERY listless (like the stare at the wall and not blink for 4 hours listless). I want to maiximiz the amount of runing I can do and still enjoy my life. I DO believe I can have both as I tend to workout at very odd hours and have a flexible schedule.

At this point, I'm thinking of probably going the same route as you Greg (albeit slower!).

Thank you VERY much Malmo. If this is THE Malmo, I'm extremely humbled.

YOUR GOING TO GET INJURED NOW - AFTER SAYING THAT! SHHHHHHHH! YOU NEVER SAY THAT OUTLOUD!

2 weeks singles/2 weeks doubles would be very hard to fit into my schedule to proof a hypothesis. I do appreciate the idea though.

If this clown stopper showed up at a GBTC practice and told me what he put in the original message I'd have to ask about 22 years ago.

I have asked the following question to people who show up at GBTC practice: What do you want to do?

What training have you done for the past 6 months.

What is the best athletic thing you have ever done?

The third question produces usually a laugh and the answer, nothing, but I have had masters runners who had run excellent times in the past and even Olympians in other sports.

So answer me the third question.

Tom

"So answer me the third question."

Tom

Ran a (legit) 32:32 10K on my 17th birthday (under the informal tutalage of Dickie Mahoney.) Tried to be a walk on at NU my Frosh year and got dissed. Wasn't recruited (and didn't know Bickford.) Got a job shortly after that to pay for college and didn't run another step.

On a dare the day before, ran Boston in '86 as a bandit in just under 4 1/2 hours (outkicked Johnny Kelly.) Previously, hadn't run a step in 5 years (or again until 2003.) On this board, this is no biggie but it was harder than it sounds.

As for running, that's it.

Derderian wrote:

If this clown stopper showed up at a GBTC practice and told me what he put in the original message I'd have to ask about 22 years ago.

I have asked the following question to people who show up at GBTC practice: What do you want to do?

What training have you done for the past 6 months.

What is the best athletic thing you have ever done?

The third question produces usually a laugh and the answer, nothing, but I have had masters runners who had run excellent times in the past and even Olympians in other sports.

So answer me the third question.

Tom

Am I the only one not understanding what was just said?

[quote]Stop & the clowns'll get me wrote:

"So answer me the third question."

Tom

Ran a (legit) 32:32 10K on my 17th birthday (under the informal tutalage of Dickie Mahoney

That tells me a lot. You have the same genetics so you are likely still tough enough so I think it is a reasonable risk to run the singles, but slow down so you are only staring at the wall for 45 minutes thereafter and eat and drink immediatly after your run. Weigh yourself before the run and make sure you drink enough to come back to that weight as soon as quickly as you are comfortable. No need to be a zombie. Dickie the mailman ran 140s after walking his route with his mailbag. If you are still in the area you can meet with my guys who ran 1:27 half marathon last night through the pain-in-the-ass streets of Cambridge and Somerville.

Tom

80 fast miles of singles is infinitely more useful than a slower 100+miles of doubles. get those longer runs in everyday... minimum 12 to 14 mile runs instead of doing 6 in the morning and 8 at night... that shit is useless.

dk46 wrote:

80 fast miles of singles is infinitely more useful than a slower 100+miles of doubles. get those longer runs in everyday... minimum 12 to 14 mile runs instead of doing 6 in the morning and 8 at night... that shit is useless.

Well so 7:30-12:58 is also useless cause Kennedy ran even 70mpw with 5-6 doubles.

JohnWhitehead wrote:

dk46 wrote:

80 fast miles of singles is infinitely more useful than a slower 100+miles of doubles. get those longer runs in everyday... minimum 12 to 14 mile runs instead of doing 6 in the morning and 8 at night... that shit is useless.

Well so 7:30-12:58 is also useless cause Kennedy ran even 70mpw with 5-6 doubles.

right... and the original poster is kennedy. great example of the common man!

I often wondered the same thing regarding the singles vs. doubles. I have always been a fan of doubles, though my mileage goals are more modest. However, on my double days my morning run is much shorter around 4 miles and usually very slow (probably too slow). Do those 4 miles really do anything or are they just pure garbage miles? I have to give props to anyone that can get of bed and run 7+ miles on a consistent basis in addition to all the other obligations of life.

I have no real advice but rather another question. Right now since I have an infant at home I'm forced to run on the treadmill a minimum of three days a week. I still run doubles on most of those days but the runs tend to be short 4-5 miles and very slow 8:00-9:00 pace (I'm a sub 3 hour female marathon runner). My question is should I try to do a single run on the treadmill on the days when I don't have to option to run outside but make the run longer and faster? Or should I stick with two run, one being more a speed workout the other one just slogging thru the run.

The thought of 2 runs in one day on the treadmill is downright depressing but I seem to have a real problem running fast on the treadmill.

Thanks!