Rodgers Rop Training

Renato on hill-sprints:

"The first training that every long distance runner can use, good for every period of preparation, is to sprint from 60 to 100m climbing. Speed is a quality depending of nervous capacity and muscle strenght. Nervous capacity is the capacity of high explosive concentration, thet you need for recruiting the higher number of fibres of a muscle. Strenght of a muscle is the capacity of producing tension, and speed of contraction.

Our muscles don't work like the engine of a car. If you have an engine able to do 5000 revolutions reaching 180 km of speed, when you go at 100 km of speed you use only 3000 revolutions, but the engine works in the same way.

Instead, if we have a muscle made with 100 fibres, we use the most part of the fibres during max. speed, and only a part of these reducing the speed. For example, jogging you can use 20% of your fibres, ALWAYS THE SAME.

So, when you have to use speed, you are not able to use the percentage of fibres normally resting. These fibres are less strong, but also unable to receive in short time the order of the brain.

Running always at slow speed, you de-fuse your nervous system regarding the fibres that you don't use normally.

So, the best way for training not the speed, but the CAPACITY OF NERVOUS SYSTEM, basic for the speed, is to do short efforts at max.intensity, like short sprints uphill. You must interpret this work in explosive way, like a sprinter, not using progressive speed, because the first aim is to develop the capacity of the brain.

Running for a time of 10/15 sec, you cannot do too much lactate. You can use 1min / 1:30 of recovery, so lactic acid can be eliminated almost totally.

But what you have to remember is that THIS IS A TRAINING FOR THE NERVOUS SYSTEM, needing max intensity, so recovery times are not very important.

Too many times, long runners give big importance to recovery times also in type of training not having the goal of improving endurance, but basic nervous and muscular qualities. This is a mistake, when we are speaking about RAPIDITY we are speaking about a quality, when we are speaking about SPEED we are speaking about the USE of that quality. And, for a long runner, we must train the basic quality before the practical expression of this.

So, is not true that long run can reduce speed, and that speed can reduce endurance. Training is what you do, not what you don't do, and you don't improve your speed IF YOU DON'T USE SPEED, at the same way you don't improve your endurance IF YOU DON'T USE ENDURANCE.

So, for example, if we speak about your time in 400m after using 2 months of sprints uphill (not high speed on track), the amount of your improvement depend on your level before (not only level in PB, but level in training).

If you are a sprinter that normally use all the exercises of sprinting, speed, weights, plyo, reactivity, you can improve very little (for ex., from 45.50 to 45.45.... or not !). But, if you are a marathon runner NEVER using any speed in your training before, you can improve very much (for ex., from 58.0 to 55.0) at the beginning of your new type of training. Of course, later your improvement is more reduced, but what you can see is that your decrease is very fast when you stop using this training (so, in 2 months without speed you can come back from 55 to 57)"

Did Rodgers Rop incorporate Hill-sprints in his training before he started to work with Renato? Did he stress that system at all?

That's pretty good training, did you read Cherono's training?

Seb Coe,Aouita, Steve Scott,Zatopek, Jim Ryun, Gebre...almost every top distance runner trains(ed) a bit like a sprinter.

Doing 100s uphill or flat at maximum speed can lead to incredible improvement in running economy, there's not enough emphasis on that in most training-programs.

I introduced short-hill reps in the winter of 2002 and had a major breakthrough the following trackseason.I was doing one hill-session 20 reps of sprinting and bounding up 60m-100m and another session 20 60m-150m sprints on flat terrain every week.

In my first tracksession of the year i was floating at 60sec pace just off Base-work and Hill(Sprint)-Work,everything felt so slow and comfortable.

quoting Renato Canova in another LetsRunCom post about marathon training, last month training.

....when you are really ready for full Marathon, you cannot run your PB in Half. If this happens, there's some mistake in your training...Renato Canova

03-28-2004 Lisbon Half marathon results

1. Rodgers Rop 59:49 (i think it´s a PB or very close to it right?)

How many times it takes to Boston marathon?

X-RUNNER wrote:

quoting Renato Canova in another LetsRunCom post about marathon training, last month training.

....when you are really ready for full Marathon, you cannot run your PB in Half. If this happens, there's some mistake in your training...Renato Canova

03-28-2004 Lisbon Half marathon results

1. Rodgers Rop 59:49 (i think it´s a PB or very close to it right?)

How many times it takes to Boston marathon?

yes, a pb and well remebered! however, i would guess renato meant this as a general statement not an absolute truism.

Alternatively Rop would be running mid to low 59s if he was not in marathon training.

or perhaps i'm clutching at straws to justify a below par half last week in my last race before london marathon !

10 miles

Outdoor Alltime WL WAT AfricaYL AfricaAT

2002 46:37 2 Tilburg 8 Sep

10 km

Outdoor Alltime WL WAT AfricaYL AfricaAT

2001 28:01 2 Den Haag 27 May

2002 28:04 1 Paderborn 30 Mar

20 km

Outdoor Alltime WL WAT AfricaYL AfricaAT

2002 58:49 2 Alphen aan den Rijn 10 Mar

Half Marathon

Outdoor Alltime WL WAT AfricaYL AfricaAT

2001 60:57 3 Berlin 1 Apr

2002 60:45 5 Lisboa 24 Mar

2003 60:50 6 Lisboa 16 Mar

2004 59:49 1 Lisboa 28 Mar

Marathon

Outdoor Alltime WL WAT AfricaYL AfricaAT

2001 2:09:51 3 New York NY 4 Nov

2002 2:08:07 1 New York NY 3 Nov

2003 2:11:11 2 ING New York NY 2 Nov

He's improving 1 min this year, after being pretty consistent around 60.50, that's pretty nice coaching by Renato. And it doesn't look like he peaked too much for this race, just put down the mileage a bit for a week.

Uphill short sprints are new to me, but this is a great post. I've always done uphill(400 meter) repeats early in the season when I am just starting workouts, but short all out sprints are new to me. Should these be done as speed maintenance all year round even in base phase? Are they similar to 100 meter strides in the summer when doing base for XC?

And how steep should the hill be, or does it not matter as long as you give it a 100% effort?

I think Renato mentioned 15-30% in a previous thread.

15-30%? That's freakin' steep! Can you find any reference to such steep hill sprints? My inclination (pun intended) is that the hill needn't be too steep, as the idea, as noted by Rop, is to achieve muscle tension. All that's necessary for that is probably a 1-3% incline.

great post wrote:

Uphill short sprints are new to me, but this is a great post. I've always done uphill(400 meter) repeats early in the season when I am just starting workouts, but short all out sprints are new to me. Should these be done as speed maintenance all year round even in base phase? Are they similar to 100 meter strides in the summer when doing base for XC?

I wouldn't think of it as speed "maintenance", like a 100 meter stride might be, but instead speed building. Renato has stated these sprints are short, like in the 40-70 meter range, and are meant to be very much explosive. You aren't easing into it like a 100 meter stride, you are exploding out of the whole to help train the nervous system.

Frozen Garlic wrote:

15-30%? That's freakin' steep! Can you find any reference to such steep hill sprints? My inclination (pun intended) is that the hill needn't be too steep, as the idea, as noted by Rop, is to achieve muscle tension. All that's necessary for that is probably a 1-3% incline.

10 x 100m sprint climbing (gradient 15-20 %)

Straight from one of Canova's generic schedules.

Michael:

I did not see Cherono's training listed. Where can I find it? Tinman

these can also be done on sand dunes (for those of you lucky enough to live by the beach!), either barefoot or with shoes, i prefer with shoes. absolutely right on the "not speed maintenence" part, it's only to develop capacity, thus doesn't need to be very long, just all out, or close to it.

The gradient of the sprints uphill that I use with all my athletes is about 15%, but is possible to use different hills. Instead, I don't agree that we can use the run on the sand with the same goal. We try to develop the reactivity of feet, because thru this quality is possible to develop the speed. For reacting very well with your feet, you need a HARD GROUND, not able to absorb the elasticity of the feet of the athlete. Instead, if you run on a soft ground, like sand, your feet cannot work in elastic way, and you reduce this quality. You can use run on the beach for increasing the strenght of your quadriceps, but is a mistake for very elastic runners.

Always I try to develop the elasticity of my runners. So, I prefer to use hard ground and good gradient climbing.

All my marathon runners and athletes of other events use this type of training.

Selina Kosgei, winner in Paris with 2:24:32 in her first marathon (she has 2:03 in 800m, 15:01 in 5000 and won Commonwealth Games in 2002 with 31:27 on 10000m), started the preparation for her debut on 15th of January, in a camp in Kaptagat. She had to develop 3 qualities at the moment : long endurance, running once a week good pace with faster final (starting from 28 km, arriving to 38 12 days before the race) ; technque, as she runs with the bust to ahead and too low knees ; strenght, as she is very slim and needs more muscles for running fast also uphill.

So, I used 3 different type of training climbing :

for the first goal (long endurance), hilly courses with many hills up and down ;

for the second (technique) sprints of 100m with an easy gradient (about 6/8 %) trying to use a good frequency ;

for the third, sprints of 60/80m with a very big gradient (30%), that are "ramps" and help you to develop strenght.

But the type of hill and of work depends also on the different attitude and morphology of the athletes.

During the last week end, I had many runners in HM very good. With every one I use sprints uphill, but in different way.

With ROBERT KIPCHUMBA (22 years, winning Stramilano in 60:22) and MARTIN SULLE (22 years also, bronze medal in WHMCh, 2nd in Stramilano in 60:29), that have a technique of agility, using very high frequency, I use sprints of 60/100m with a gradient of 15% about, where they push very hard, trying long steps, for developing strenght. At the end of every session (they use also 3 sessions, in some week, of sprints climbing) they go for a run of 400/500m climbing, at their max. speed (only once). This type of training has the task of using soon your strenght in direction of strenght-endurance.

With ENOCK MITEI (24 years, n. 4 in Stramilano in 60:32) and RICHARD YATICH (24 years, n. 9 in Lisbon in 60:31) I never go under 100m of sprint, but use a hill of about 8/10 % lasting 20/25 sec. They tryi to improve their frequency, seeking more rapidity with a good reaction in their feet, that are not very elastic.

With JOHN KORIR (23 years, n. 5 in Stramilano in 60:47) I use normally very short sprints of about 40m, with a gradient of more than 30% (ramps), only for improving strenght (but too many times he doesn't use because in Military Camp or in Residential Camp before some World Championship nobody goes for short sprint). Before running 26:52 two years ago, John in St. Moritz used this type of sprints twice a week, also for reducing the lenght of his strides.

With SOLOMON BUSHENDICH (20 years, 2nd in Berlin in 60:42 in his first HM) I use only sprints from 200 to 300m, as Solomon is already very strong in his muscles, having short legs very strong. So, with him I try to develop STRENGHT-ENDURANCE, no strenght or rapidity, that already he has at good level. Solomon comes from the mountains, and his capacity in attacking hills is very high.

With DANIEL RONO (26 years, 4th in Berlin in 61:26) instead I want to develop strenght because he's very slim. Daniel uses short sprints climbing (about 15% of gradient) twice a week, going with very high knees and high frequency, as normally he uses too long strides.

So, I think that every type of hilly training can be good or less good depending on the necessities of every athlete.

Renato-

If you have the time to reply, that would be great. What type of hill sprint work would you recommend for an athlete with decent stride frequency but poor stride length? For example, I have run 200m in 28.0 seconds all out, and I took 107 strides to do so.

Thanks.

The Deek did hills year round. Also said do a pretty steep 200m hill running hard at the start then hang on.

mlbfan24 wrote:

And how steep should the hill be, or does it not matter as long as you give it a 100% effort?