Why is Lebid so dominant in the winter?

Everything's Pretty Obvious

Not very dominant at Worlds - stuggles even to finish...wonder why that is?!

Have to agree with sam. He is dominant until worlds, last two years he has dropped out, in 01' finished in the medals, but again this is before they started testing for EPO, etc. Hate to broach that subject with no proof, but it seems kinda odd he places well/wins in meets that don't test.

bump

SWEDES wrote:

Have to agree with sam. He is dominant until worlds, last two years he has dropped out, in 01' finished in the medals, but again this is before they started testing for EPO, etc. Hate to broach that subject with no proof, but it seems kinda odd he places well/wins in meets that don't test.

And the Europeans is such a minor little event that they don't test? It was a championship event, so they tested all medallists, plus others too.

They did not test all medalists. They tested 3 in each event at random - in the Senior women all three were Brits !

It would be silly to fail a test at a competition (I know some have !) but if he is cheating then only an out of competition test will will catch him - and who will be doing that test ? Not his federation thats for sure. IAAF ? I bet they dont even know which country he is in, so unless something strange happens he can do what he wants as long as he is careful before he competes.

That was his first race this winter ? No warm ups needed to win the European ?

lofty wrote:

They did not test all medalists. They tested 3 in each event at random - in the Senior women all three were Brits !

It would be silly to fail a test at a competition (I know some have !) but if he is cheating then only an out of competition test will will catch him - and who will be doing that test ? Not his federation thats for sure. IAAF ? I bet they dont even know which country he is in, so unless something strange happens he can do what he wants as long as he is careful before he competes.

That was his first race this winter ? No warm ups needed to win the European ?

Is that true about not testing all medallists? Thought that as it was in the UK we would test as per the strictest standards. Seems we can only test UK athletes then - everytime I speak to one of my mates he has to go as the drug testers have just turned up.

It's financial. Sure, Lebed DNF'ed at Worlds the last two years, but from a purely financial standpoint, Lebed has been doing the right thing. By winning Euro Cross, he makes a good living for the next 3 months on the European cross circuit. He's the one European that every race promoter wants. He's the one white guy that can challenge the Africans in cross.

So while he might be burnt out by the time Worlds comes around, he's already run about 8-10 races and made his money for the year. How much money do you think a 13:10 guy can earn on the track? Not much.

I was in Kenya for 12 days, coming back only today. I did'nt go to European Cross Ch., but I had no doubts that Sergey had win the title.

I want to explain something about Sergey, because not knowing anything about his life someone can do some appreciation not corrected.

I became to follow Sergey in 2001, when he already had won two editions of European Ch., after winning silver in European Ch. "Under 23" in 10.000m. Sergey came to Italy, competing for the club COVER of Verbania, and stays about 6 months every year in Italy. Now he's able to speak Italian well, and I give him his training programs in Italian, that he knows better than English.

I changed something in his training, that however was already good. His former coach followed the system of Lydiard, but died 3 years ago. That's was the reason because I began to follow him. The first thing that I saw, was that his training, based on very long run and short intervals, could be good for cross, not so much for track. So, in 2002, for the first time Sergey came to St. Moritz with my Kenyan athletes, training with them sometime, showing a not good mental attitude for track. Particularly, he thought not to be talented enough for track, having like focus the winter season.

I explained him that, with a correct training, could be very strong also on track. After 40 days of work in altitude, he was able to improve national records both in 3000m (7:35.06 in Montecarlo) and 5000m (13:10.78 in Berlin), arriving on the podium in Golden League events.

So, he understood his potential, and decided to prepare Olympics in 5000m this year.

Having great muscle strenght, he is particularly talented for muddy crosses. When he arrived in silver medal in Oostend, the race was very muddy.

Every year, he has to reach the best shape early, for winning European Ch., that is not a top event but can produce good interst for a European runner. So, during the last two years his shape was very good at the end of the season, lasting till the end of January, while the shape of Kenyans is yet very low, as their most important appointment comes later. During last winter, for example, Sergey was able to win 7 following races, but during March was mentally tired (also because was preparing his new house), and in Losanna was not concentrated on the race.

During 2003 he married in May, and we decided that was better for him to skip the most part of the track season, not having any chance in World Ch. He won only Universitary Games, going home for preparing his cross season from September. We tested his first period of long training (basic period) with the Half Marathon in Great North Run on 4th of October, and we were satisfied as he ran 61:49. So, after this, he went home to Ukraina, working at medium altitude (1200m about) for 40 days, then coming to Italy just for the last 10 days before the race.

During this winter, we plan to compete till the end of January, skipping World Cross Ch., for preparing OG in 5000m.

So, please, don't speak about EPO or something else. Sergey is simply the best European in Cross, and his situation on track depends on a precise choice. But I think that he can be competitive also on track, till 13 min on 5. In any case, against El Guerrouj, Kipchoge, Bekele, Shaheen and some other Kenyan he can win only if the other are out of shape. But for next year I also am curious to see his improvement having a precise goal.

I have, if someone is interested, his program for the last two months, written in Italian.

If someone is interested, I can post it thru e-mail, but you have to translate. And, remember, Sergey is a "cross-man" like mentality, and finds very well when temperature is very cold. So, for him winter is the best season.

Renato Canova wrote:

In any case, against El Guerrouj, Kipchoge, Bekele, Shaheen and some other Kenyan he can win only if the other are out of shape.

Renato,

Are you essentially saying that Lebid has no chance of medalling next year at the Olympics?

If Renato won't, I will.

Renato, I have a question. You wrote:

The first thing that I saw, was that his training, based on very long run and short intervals, could be good for cross, not so much for track.

Why do you think that short intervals are okay for cross but not for track? I'm curious as to your reasoning.

Bump - I had the same question.

Drunk Hick wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

In any case, against El Guerrouj, Kipchoge, Bekele, Shaheen and some other Kenyan he can win only if the other are out of shape.

Renato,

Are you essentially saying that Lebid has no chance of medalling next year at the Olympics?

If he gets enthused about track, and gets juiced like the E. Africans, he has a chance at a medal.

mir. canova ,I have followed Sergiy Lebeds career with great interest since I saw him win The GReat North cross country in Durham,England in 2000. Lebed is a true cross country specialist and a great tactical runner. I would be very interested in the specifics of his training, along with the winter programs of some of your other cross country athletes. I would also like to thank you for your tremendous contibutions to this message board.

The best quality of Sergey is a final progression, not a short sprint. So, he doesn't have the kick, but is able to finish very fast during last 400-600m.

The worst quality of Sergey is that never was able to start very fast in a race. He needs running increasing his pace, and is not able to answer when some athlete (like africans do) change quickly his speed.

He has a PB of 3:39.5 in 1500, and with a good training can improve to 3:36. But El Guerrouj, Kibowen, Chebii, Kipchoge are all faster than him.

He has PB of 28:12 in 10k (this year) and 61:49 in HM. Are good, but Bekele, Kipchoge and others can run really faster.

So, the only way for beeing competitive is to find a tactical race, like happened during WCh in Edmonton.

The problem is that the new generation of top runners (expecially Bekele and Kipchoge) don't await the race, but "make" the race.

So, really I think that a position in top 6 must be considered like a triumph. Also if are not mathematics, top level competitions follow precise rules, and it's not possible to reverse the reality.

About the question "like short intervals are good for cross and not for track", my answer is very clear :

In cross you cannot use high continuous speed, that depends on the level of your Anaerobic Threshold, expecially when it's muddy. You need muscle strenght (and Sergey is stronger than Kenyans, but not than Bekele), high strenght-endurance, not very high aerobic power. So, a training of volume is very important, as the training of strenght.

Regarding short intervals, they are good for preparing the capacity of changing pace, and of sprinting during the last part of the race.

But this can happen only when the races are slow in the first part, because training long run and very short tests doesn't allow to increase your capacity in running FAST FOR LONG TIME. For doing this, you need LONG INTERVALS AT HIGH SPEED (may be 102-105% of the Race Pace), that he didn't do with his system.

You are always speaking about Lydiard, that was a very great coach, but never prepared an athlete for competing in a cross season. With this system, you cannot be in shape for the winter season, and for winning WCCCh you need running about 27:20 or less (with Bekele under 26:40, in other case you are not competitive). So, you have to use a similar training of the summer, only with some more volume and a little slower speed.

Without long intervals (3000/2000, and 6-10 km very fast continuous running) you cannot win a medal in World CC.

Renato,

Given Lebids strength as a cross runner, do you see him eventually moving up to the marathon distance?

Renato,

good to hear that you visited Kenya. How is Kenya?

Also, tell me something. I understand (from reading the Kenyan newspapers) that Nicholas Kemboi might defect to Bahrain or some other gulf country. What's your understanding on this??

The reason I ask is that I am very concerned because in my view, this teenager might be our only answer to the Ethiopians in the 10,000m and with him gone, it doesn't augur well for our athletics dominance.

Nah, your real answer is to have some guys train in a fashion that will allow them to run the way the Ethiopians do; Increasing the pace all through the second half. Of course, making sure the EPO dosages are monitored is also important.

Renato-

How can one develop the muscle strength needed for XC?

Does this come from mileage? Strength/weight sessions? If so, please describe.

Also, can you please clarify, "Without long intervals (3000/2000, and 6-10 km very fast continuous running" Does this mean long intervals are critical so are 6-10k tempo sessions? I am not sure, but would like to know.

Thank You