The Shelby Houlihan Interview: Lingering Questions from Doping Case, How She Trained for the Last 4 Years, & Her Return to the Sport

On January 14, Shelby Houlihan became eligible to return to competition after serving a four-year suspension for testing positive for the banned steroid nandrolone. The 32-year-old Houlihan, who still holds the American outdoor record of 3:54.99 in the women’s 1500m, wasted no time, running 8:31.56 for 3000 meters and a personal best of 4:20.30 in the mile (#3 on the all-time US indoor list). Most recently, she finished 4th in the 1500m and 2nd in the 3000m at the US Indoor Championships on February 22-23.

The latter result clinched Houlihan’s spot on Team USA for the 2025 World Indoor Championships to be held in Nanjing, China, from March 21-23 — Houlihan’s first appearance on a US team since she competed at the 2019 outdoor Worlds in Doha in October 2019.

One week after she made the team, Houlihan sat down at her computer for an hour-long interview with LetsRun.com’s Jonathan Gault and Robert Johnson. No subject was off-limits. The first half of the conversation focused on Houlihan’s doping case, the second half on how she trained and sustained herself during her suspension and her comeback during the 2025 indoor season.

You can listen to the entire interview here or on your favorite podcast player (LetsRun.com Supporters Club members have already had access to this interview for a week — you can join the Supporters Club here for early access to exclusive content, discounts on shoes and running gear, and a weekly bonus podcast). Below, we’ve excerpted some highlights from the conversation, lightly edited for clarity.

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Houlihan on the source of the nandrolone in her sample: “You read a headline that says athlete blames positive test on burrito, that does sound ridiculous, right? It sounds like a really hard thing to believe. I think there’s a lot more to the case than just that.”

Rojo:  I’ll kick this off with a softball question, Shelby. Four years later and someone asks you how did the nandrolone end up in your system? What’s your response?

Houlihan: I think that’s a great question and honestly, one that I still don’t fully have answers to. A lot of the headlines, of course, were like, athlete blames burrito for positive test and all that stuff. And I think that those headlines are sometimes a little misleading. I’m given a notification of a positive  test and I have seven days to [respond to the AIU and] really try to figure out  what happened. And it’s not easy to provide answers when you don’t really have them.

So what we felt like was, okay, the biggest likelihood at the time was maybe this meat from this burrito at a food truck that I ate at the night before. And that’s what we really tried to set out and  prove, the best we could.

On February 22, Houlihan finished 2nd in the 3000m in her first appearance at a US championship in five years (Kevin Morris photo)

But yeah,  looking at it now, there could be other explanations, like maybe it was a vitamin that I had taken. I’ve wondered if it was maybe birth control or something. Because the first thing that I had done was, okay, go take a pregnancy test and see if you’re pregnant because women that are pregnant have a higher level of nandrolone  in them, naturally. So what if  it was the birth control and we didn’t have time to explore that?

So to answer your question, I don’t really know. Still. I wish I did, because I think that would make things a lot easier, just moving forward, actually having answers. But yeah, it’s still kind of a question mark.

Rojo:  I’ve seen some criticism in recent weeks. [In the] Wall Street Journal, Rachel Bachman wrote a nice article, but she quoted you as saying, oh, it sounds kind of ridiculous. And some people took that to believe that you just invented this excuse, whereas that’s not what you meant by that, right?

Houlihan: No. Like I said, when you read a headline that says athlete blames positive test on burrito, that does sound ridiculous, right? It sounds like a really hard thing to believe. I think there’s a lot more to the case than just that. You do what you can in the seven days to provide answers. That was what we kind of, the only link that we had, was that food truck. So we did our best to try to prove that.

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Houlihan’s list of supplements and anti-doping history

Gault: Can you tell us all of the supplements and vitamins you were taking at the time of your positive test?

Houlihan: Yeah, definitely. I’m not a big supplement person. I don’t even really like protein powder. I don’t take a ton of supplements. But I was taking a calcium gummy vitamin, a multi gummy vitamin, vitamin D gummy vitamin, and then like a B-complex pill. And that was like really it. I don’t remember specifically which two of the gummy vitamins I didn’t have the originals of [to send to the lab to test for contamination] —  I think it might have been calcium and vitamin D.

Is it possible that [the nandrolone] was in one of the gummy vitamins? I don’t know. It feels unlikely, but like who knows? We did our best to try to get everything that I did consume and send it off to a lab, but the results obviously were negative.

Gault:  I have a couple questions, Shelby, about your previous anti-doping history. Have you ever had a TUE in your career?

Houlihan: No.

Gault: And have you ever had any missed tests? Any whereabouts strikes?

Houlihan: Nope. I’ve never missed a test.

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Houlihan on AIU vs. USADA: “If it was USADA handling it, I think it would’ve been handled differently”

Gault: Have you talked to USADA or [USADA CEO] Travis Tygart about your case? And have they said whether you would’ve been banned four years had this been a USADA case rather than an AIU case?

Houlihan: I have talked to them about it. We were in contact them with them throughout this, just trying to get other opinions. It’s interesting to me, because what we were kind of being told was, this is not the way that we would’ve handled this case.

[They said] the levels that you tested positive at, it is a very real  possibility that it is contamination. So what we (USADA) believe the protocol should have been is you should not have been notified and continued getting tested like seven times over the next six months — I don’t remember exactly the protocol, but like that. And that should tell tell us if this was a one-time contamination thing or if you’re actually cheating.

So that’s what we were originally trying to argue — we don’t feel like this was  handled to protocol.  Unfortunately it seems like protocol is up to the organization’s interpretation, which is a little frustrating.

If it was USADA handling it, I think it would’ve been handled differently. Maybe the result would’ve been the same. I’m not really sure. But they definitely seem more open-minded — like maybe this is contamination and maybe we do need to really look into this a little deeper. Whereas my  experience with the AIU definitely just felt like, you’re  guilty, whatever you come up with, we’re gonna do everything we can to like prove that you’re guilty.

I have talked to Travis and USADA about the case. From my perspective, they seem to believe that I’m telling the truth. But it’s hard when there’s a lack of consistency within protocols and standards.

Gault: Do you wish that USADA had intervened in your Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) hearing? Because it seemed like they had the opportunity to do so and they chose not to (see page 5 of the CAS decision).

Houlihan: I do wish they would have, because the [AIU was] really only relying on one expert opinion, which was [Christiane] Ayotte, and she had been proven to have lied in a previous  case. So in my  opinion, I don’t think that she was the most reliable expert opinion to be brought forward. So it would’ve been nice for them to be able to at least provide another expert opinion.

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How did Houlihan and Jerry Schumacher not know what nandrolone was?

Gault:  The other thing I’ve seen some pushback on — certainly from our readers — is both you and Jerry Schumacher, your coach, claimed you’d never heard of nandrolone before the case. It’s a fairly common performance-enhancing drug. There have been a lot of busts for it in recent years. A lot of our readers found that hard to believe — how has this professional athlete, how has this longtime world-class coach never heard of this substance? So how do you explain that?

Houlihan: Yeah, I understand people got pretty hung up on that aspect. I just have never really been interested in that side of the sport. So I don’t really know a lot about [it]. And maybe I should be more educated in that realm. Maybe I should have known what nandrolone was.

I’ve never really been interested in the doping aspect, so I’ve never really educated myself on it.  I could maybe  name EPO, testosterone and I think L-carnitine was in the whole Salazar thing. That’s about it. That’s about my knowledge of doping.

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What needs to change in the anti-doping system

Gault: What specific changes would you like to see to the global anti-doping system or to the AIU’s anti-doping processes?

Houlihan: I’m not gonna pretend to have answers, so these are just kind of my opinions. Definitely, from my experience and seeing how cases have been handled since then, some accountability would be a great start. The athlete  is 100% accountable. And if [the AIU] gets it wrong, nothing happens to them.

It doesn’t seem like it’s fair. I would love to see more accountability for them to get it right. Because if they don’t, the athlete is the only one that’s really gonna  suffer there.

More transparency would be great as well in communication. I went five months without ever getting any sort of communication on my case. I didn’t know where it was at. I didn’t know what they had found. We were just giving the AIU  test results and theories — our evidence, essentially, that we were sending off to them. And all we ever got in five months was, “we acknowledge the receipt of your email,” essentially.

And then five months later, they finally charged me with an anti-doping violation.  But I was kind of being held in this provisional suspension  state for that long without any communication. So I think aligning with the accountability part, I think there should be like a timeline and communication [standard] that they’re being held to as well, so they can’t just like run the clock however long they want to run it. Because time is the most valuable thing for athletes. If you’re taking six months, a year, 18 months to get this case solved, that’s a huge chunk of an athlete’s career.

Lastly, consistency within  standards and protocols. Maybe my case would’ve been handled differently with USADA versus the the AIU. That in itself is not fair to me. It shouldn’t matter who you get, it should be a consistent protocol throughout.

Gault: The accountability aspect though, when does that come into play? Because the AIU would just argue, well, we don’t need to be accountable because the CAS [panel] agreed with us, they upheld the ban. They would argue there’s nothing to be held accountable for.

Houlihan: Yeah, I mean I think it’s just difficult. From my experience, I know that there are athletes that aren’t choosing to cheat that are getting served four-year bans. I  probably still would’ve been pissed, but I would’ve  been way more okay with a two-year ban.

That would’ve felt so much more fair than a four-year ban because yes, there was something in my system. I was held accountable to try to prove how it got there. I wasn’t able to do that beyond a reasonable doubt. But there was no evidence proving that I cheated, either.

Gault: Well they would argue that the fact that it was in your system, that to them is sufficient proof that you’re cheating. But I guess you’re saying there needs to be a higher bar if you’re gonna ban someone for four years, you need to have more like evidence? What are you exactly arguing for there?

Houlihan: I think so. I mean, especially, from what I understand, my level was still a possibility of contamination. If I’m testing at thousands of nanograms [per mL], then it’s a lot more obvious that I’m probably cheating. But if you’re not (Houlihan’s levels were 5 ng/mL when adjusted for specific gravity), and it is a real possibility that it’s contamination, I do think that there needs to be a little more accountability there.

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Why Houlihan chose to fight to clear her name rather than admitting guilt in return for a reduced sentence

Rojo: Most people, when they get a [four-year] ban, only miss one Olympics. You missed two because of the postponement [of Tokyo 2020]. So do you wish you had just pled guilty (athletes can receive a one-year reduction in their sentence for prompt admission to a doping violation)?

Houlihan: No. That was a possibility. Even my lawyer was like, I think you should at least think about this. It was really never on the table for me. I knew that I had not chosen to cheat. I wasn’t gonna admit to cheating  when I didn’t cheat and take three years instead of four.

Honestly, if you’re having a hard time believing me, that’s a great reason right there. If I had cheated, I could just be like, yeah, sorry, I did this, I’m gonna  take three years and only miss one Olympics  instead of missing two…It would’ve been way  easier for me to just admit it.

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The comeback

Gault: Those first two meets, you ran Arkansas and BU and that was sort of lower key. And then you had the national championships, which were obviously a bigger stage, a bigger crowd. I didn’t hear any boos. It seemed pretty supportive from the crowd. Have you had any negative reception, whether it’s in person or online, during your comeback?

Houlihan: I’ve in-person had not even a single negative thing so far. Online is always a different story. People can hide behind a keyboard.

Houlihan and Nikki Hiltz shake hands at USA Indoors last month (Kevin Morris photo)

The last four years, I did kind of remove myself a bit from the track world. At least in-person. So it’s like my whole experience was online,  and it made it feel [like] the whole track world kind hates me type of thing. It’s been relieving to see in-person that that hasn’t been the case and maybe that section of the track world is just kind of loud online.

I’m not holding my breath, either. I’m sure at some point I’m gonna get some negativity. But it’s been at least really nice so far to not have had any in person.

Gault: What about the reception from your fellow athletes? Do you feel like anything has changed from before you were serving your ban to your interactions with them at meets now?

Houlihan: I don’t think so. At least not from like my perspective. It seems to be pretty normal. If something’s different, it’s not anything that I’m noticing.

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How she trained while suspended

Gault: The last four years, while you were suspended, were you training consistently during that entire period, or did you take any extended breaks? What did it look your training look like?

Houlihan: I trained consistently throughout the whole four years. In the past, I would’ve maybe taken like 10 days off in between seasons before I start getting back into it. This time, the last four years, I would take about a month.

It was more of a mental reset that was needed than a physical one. So I would go on vacation for a month or do whatever. But outside of that, I was training consistently at a very high level for the last four years. And it honestly was probably the healthiest I had ever been.

Gault:  And what did the structure of that training look like? Was it like when you were training with Bowerman [Track Club] where you’ve got a full base period and then you’re getting in shape to race during the indoor season in the winter, and then you’re racing again during the summer? Even though you’re not actually racing, but you’re doing those kind of workouts? Or is it totally different?

Houlihan: Pretty much like that, it was pretty similar [to before the ban]. I was still even doing two altitude camps a year, in the winter and going into the summer. The intensity and sharpening aspect was maybe a little bit less. I did a lot of stuff on roads or on bike paths, not on the track.  And it was really more focused on that aerobic strength. So I was doing a ton of 10-mile tempos or stuff like that, and not as much raw speed on the track. Because I think when you’re doing that raw stuff, that really specific fast pace and you’re spiking up, it’s an increased chance of injury. So I think the biggest thing was just to get stronger and stay healthy.

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A 30:31 10,000m…in practice?

Gault: How often would you do time trials during the last four years, and what were your best times?

Houlihan: I didn’t do a ton. I did quite a few in 2022, and honestly, I just kind of burnt myself out of them. In 2023, I might have done one. I was just like, I can’t even a little bit get excited for this, so I just don’t think I’m gonna do it. But yeah, I did some 800s, some 1500s.

I did  one 5k in 2022 and I did a 10k,  which was definitely the worst one. I ran 30:31 in the 10k and I ran 14:47 in the 5k. And then I think my best 1500 was 4:01 and my best 800 might have been like, 2:02.

[The 10k] was definitely the worst time trial. It was cold outside. No one was there. The atmosphere isn’t  there. Going into it, I could feel my  body was just like a little off, and so that made it even more difficult. I still ran pretty fast. It was not anywhere close to what I wanted.

In my mind, I’m trying to break 30:00 here (the American record is 30:03 by Alicia Monson). So running 30:31 was a little disappointing.

Gault: I guess you just have high standards because that’s an Olympic standard in practice (30:31 would rank #6 on the US all-time list) and doesn’t sound like great conditions. It’s pretty wild to me that you’d be able to run that fast.

Houlihan: Overall, there’s a lot of positives in it. I just, like you said, kind of hold myself to some high standards I’m looking at. I don’t remember exactly what the world record is, but it’s like 29:00-something (actually, 28:54), so me running 30:31 is nowhere close to being there. So I have a lot that I need lot to improve on.

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On supporting herself and running for the love of the sport

Houlihan was sponsored by Nike prior to her ban, but her contract was ended when she tested positive. Currently, she remains without a shoe sponsor (we dug into what it might take to get a contract and which brands might be interested in Houlihan in this article).

Houlihan: I have never have done it for money or stuff like that. I really am genuinely just curious about how good I naturally can be. And if me continuing to train at a high level for four years with nothing to look forward to and no pay doesn’t give you some type of proof  to that, I don’t know what will.

I’m hoping at some point I can get a sponsorship and start getting paid again. That would be great and a big financial relief for me. Because I definitely can’t continue to do this for very much longer.

Gault: How are you like supporting yourself financially at the moment?

Houlihan: It’s been a lot of just savings, relying on that. I’m a frugal person anyway, so outside of traveling and food, I don’t spend a ton of money. I moved out of my place in Oregon. I’ve been — not living out of my car, but kind of, [over] the last two  years so I haven’t had to pay any rent.

I cat-sat for a little bit too to get some money. So I’ve been like finding odds and ends to support me financially. But especially now that I’m  competing again, it is very expensive  to compete and try to find the best flight, all these things. If I want to race at my best, I need to spend a little more money to travel and stuff like that. So the savings is dwindling quickly.

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2020 Houlihan vs. 2025 Houlihan

Rojo: How does the 2025 version of Shelby compare to the 2020 version? Who would win in a race?

Houlihan: Probably the 2020 version at the moment. The most glaring thing that I need to work on is my confidence. In 2020,  especially after 2019, that was really the first  time [at the World Championships] in Doha where I was like, I could win this race and I belong here, I feel like I’m better than the people I’m lining up against.

2020 Shelby would beat 2025 Shelby right  now. I need to line up thinking I’m the best one on the line. Whether that’s true or not is a whole other thing. But I need to line up with that confidence and we’ll see what happens.

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World Indoors and the rest of 2025

When Houlihan was suspended in 2021, she held the American records in the 1500m (3:54.99) and 5000m (14:23.92). Alicia Monson broke Houlihan’s 5000m record in 2023 (Houlihan is now #2 on the list). At the time of Houlihan’s suspension, no other American woman had even broken 3:56 for 1500m, but that changed at last year’s Olympic Trials when Nikki Hiltz (3:55.33), Emily Mackay (3:55.90), and Elle St. Pierre (3:55.99) all did it.

Houlihan also just missed the podium on several occasions at global championships. At the 2018 World Indoor Championships, she finished 5th in the 3000m and 4th in the 1500m. At the 2019 World Outdoor Championships, she was 4th in the 1500m. Houlihan said she is hoping to break through and earn her first global medal in 2025.

Gault: And what event or events will you focus on outdoors?

Houlihan: Right now in my mind, probably 1500/5000. I still think I can be competitive in the 1500 and I don’t think there’s enough information to this point to tell me that I’m not gonna be  competitive. So I’m going to at least see, and  if it ends up being that way, I have no problem moving to the 5k/10k. I think I’m gonna be good at the 10k as well, so we’ll see. But right now I still just feel like my heart’s with the 1500 and I wanna really see that through.

Gault: Your event has changed quite a bit since you left, both in the US and around the world. It took 3:54.38 to medal in the 2019 Worlds when you were 4th. Last year at the Olympics, it took 3:52.61. Now some of that’s the shoes, obviously. But in the US, it took 3:55 to make the Olympic team last year, which is crazy. So what was it like to watch that event progress and move forward without you?

Houlihan: It’s bittersweet. It’s super cool — I watched it last summer, the Olympic Trials, I saw that 3:55 race and I was just like, that’s insane. Like maybe I wouldn’t have made the team, I don’t know. But it’s really,  really cool to see that bar be raised like, hey, this is what it takes now to make this team. I think that’s awesome, especially when the rest of the world’s running 3:50 to 3:55. If they’re running those times, you need to be running 3:53, 3:52 to medal, which is also  super cool.

The other side of that: it’s hard to just sit there and watch. It’s hard for me to not have the  opportunity to try to make the team. I love where it’s going, I wish I was a part of it. I wish I didn’t have to sit out these last four years.

Gault : The next meet for you is World Indoors. What are the goals there? What would constitute a good result for you in the 3k?

Houlihan: The hope? I’m going after medals. I would like a gold medal. I’m gonna go try to win, and if I can’t win, hopefully I’m coming away with a second or third. It’s hard though to set goals [of] medal or bust. I think a lot of things will still equate to a good  performance.

I’d say if I can line up and race with more confidence than I have been, that would be a huge positive. Running fast would be a huge positive. Just being competitive would be great. [But] ultimately my high standard for myself is to go win.

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