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Deanouk
RE: Kenyan 800m World medallist Kipyegon Bett Suspended After Refusing Drugs Test

said88 wrote:

Emmanuel Korir has run a time which in all athletics history was bettered two times by a Brit. He has beaten by big margin the new European Champion, by an even much bigger margin the best American which some were hoping to break the 33 year old US-record. Another 1:42 runner. The first lap probably was little bit on the slow side. It reportedly was little bit windy. He ran the first bend almost on lane two. Yet, he only comment is that it was a disappointing performance. Really. If it was a race from Coe, any meter would be analysed, the meteorologic stations would be contacted to find that the wind the whole race was against him - and that in fact the time was worth 1:41.98.

El Keniano seems to be deeply connected with Kenyan athletics (to be honest, to me he doesn't sound like an Kenyan, more like some German(!) I have in mind here, but for sure this isn't an offense in any way, since I don't know this and it's also not important) and therefore it's the most natural thing that he might be not completely unattached regarding all those Kenyan doping positives (or refusals). It's just hypocritical to criticize this when those people just would do almost ANYTHING when the same would stand against some of the own (always British) heroes. They would look for any (regardless how small) piece which might relieve their heroes a little bit. Criticising El Keniano for this to me is hypocritical.

To seriously address something to Coevett is not possible (if he is or isn't a "racist" as many here claim I can't say anything to, but he is a notorious lier, which he has proven over and over again - what else is to say to someone who for well over one year constantly completely changes the progression to the bad of some athlete he hates deeply just for "proving" his own theory, regardles how often you give him the pure - different - facts). This is just one example, there are many more. So, definitely no chance to have a serious conversation with him. Not because he points on Kenyan and/or North African doping cases, for sure it's OK to do this. But because he often is not going to change his points even when proved to be wrong (and for sure also the way he talks and because he puts words in someones mouth which never were said).

But you Deano, you often act very serious and you definitely have a deep knowledge and you seem someone who also has the ability for some self reflection. But when the subject in ANY WAY is Sebastian Coe, then it seems you loose any credibility. And you are going to loose any of my respect (you might not care, I can't know) which I had at the moment. When a comparison to Coe is at stage, than even 6 World Champs Gold medals are easily worth almost nothing. 800m and 1500m Golds are worth more than 5000m ones - because more races have to be run!!! Come on - are you serious? I could give more examples but that's not the point here. But more and more defending a notorious liar (just a pure fact which is not discussable) like Coevett doesn't put you in a very good light. Yes, for sure, if he is saying correct things, they must not be criticised. (1+1=2 also when Adolf Hitler says so). But more and more you are encouraging him. For me thats a shame.

And for sure it's more than just little curious (and not bad to question this from El Keniano) that there are almost no positives from most other athletics countries. To put it like Brits are something more ethical like others is just absurd. Also that there might be no doping at the moment in British athletics at the moment. There are so many improvements in the last years that it's just astonishing (bicycling, Dina Asher-Smith, field events... - to name just a few). And for sure also Mo Farah. For sure I would never accuse seomeone without proof - just the overall view Kenyans are ALL "bad", Brits are (almost) all "good" is just laughable.


Blimey! I am not sure where all that vitriol has come from?
For a start, I haven't made any comparisons between Korir and Coe on this thread, and only mentioned the latter in his capacity as head of the IAAF!
I also never made any claim about Korir not being the most talented 800m runner in the world at the moment, which he clearly is. I was merely comparing his form today with his own form from a few weeks ago, which was sublime. I know well enough how good and special 1:42.8 is, thank you very much, and do not need anyone else spelling it out to me. I stated, in light of what Korir himself has been saying this week (that he believes he can run under 1:40), and from analysing his last outing (1:42.05, looking relaxed and with a 25 and bits last 200m), that his run today was somewhat disappointing for him. And I stand by every word of that. I wasn't making any comparison to Coe and neither was I analysing his race for splits/extra distance run (I haven't done that yet), so why would I need to refer to such as you suggest I somehow should?
All this was to make a point to another poster, that Korir's (and indeed Manangoi's )run today did not represent a speeding up of Kenyans in the wake of the Bett incident.

I don't fully understand what point you're trying to make in your second paragraph, but I really don't care what nationality El Keniano is, it is completely irrelevant to me. I have agreed with some things he's written over the years on here, but some of his comments on this thread I disagreed with. He made a half-hearted effort to find some excuse for why Bett may have refused the test; just as he made initial justification scenarios for when Kiprop was busted. For me it wouldn't have mattered what nationality the 2 runners are and whether El Keniano is the same nationality or not. Yes, on a human level everyone tends to look favourably on their own countrymen, but when it comes to drugs in a sport which is being destroyed by them, I have no time for those who try and make excuses for certain behaviour. I would certainly not make excuses for any British athletes that found themselves in the same situation. For me to be 'hypocritical' (something you accuse me of being!) in this matter would involve me making excuses for a UK athlete in the same situation as the one El Keniano defended. Please tell me the exact occasion/s in which I have done this?
Defending athletes from rumours and hearsay based on nothing is not the same thing. When have I defended any athlete that has been done for doping?

I am aware that you have your own differences with the poster Coevett, and I have purposely never got involved. In fact, on a few occasions I have told Coevett that you are a good guy who knows what he's talking about, and should make more of an effort to be civil. I have also not jumped on the 'Let's bash Said Aouita bandwaggon' out of respect for you; as you say, there is no proof and I choose to give Aouita the benefit of the doubt. But I'm not on these boards to 'take sides' on personal issues and slanging matches. I had enough of rude, personal jibes and behaviour that verged on bullying with Ventolin. I think I'm a pretty level headed guy who is generally polite and isn't on here to make enemies. If I agree with someone I'll say so, if I don't, I'll argue my point and back it up with evidence or data of some sort to support it. Sometimes I make mistakes, which is human, and I'd like to think I'm better than most in apologising or acknowledging when I have.

There are a lot of things which Coevett states that I disagree with, but I'm not going to criticise or argue against him for the sake of it, when I think he has made an accurate or salient point. I tend to take people as I find them, and how they treat me. I have been criticised several times in the last few days for defending Coevett. I don't see it as that at all. Just because I like a few brush strokes from an artist, it doesn't mean I'm necessarily in awe of the final painting! And I am not encouraging him to lie! That is nonsense, and something which I find quite offensive tbh. I am not his keeper and I'm not on here to somehow edit or censor what he writes! That is the job of the moderators, if and when they see fit to do so.

With regards to the comments in your 4th paragraph, they would have been more useful and in context had you posted them on the relevant thread/s. The thread you are referring to was on the greatest 'Distance' runner in the UK. The fact that several others posted Farah's and Coe's names at the top of the list, meant it would be pretty impossible for me to post without reference to Coe, wouldn't it? But again, I stick by what I stated. There are a lot of people in the UK who would rank Coe and Thompson ahead of Farah as Britain's greatest ever athlete.
My argument was that you cannot compare athletes from different eras that didn't have the same opportunities. 6 World Championship golds are absolutely relevant when comparing Farah to Bekele, as they both competed during an era when there were World Champs every 2 years throughout their respective careers. But they are very much less relevant when using as evidence to state Farah is/was better than Viren, or Yifter or Coe, or even Aouita.
And yes, Farah's double golds were less impressive than those achieved by Viren, Yifter or even Bekele, who all had to run rounds in the 10k and more overall races in their respective campaigns.
I also never said that 800 and 1500 golds were worth more than 5000 ones!?! Where did you get that from? I stated that it would be easier for the best in the world to win the 5k and 10k double than the 8 & 15 double, because there are no heats in the 10000m, as there used to be. History would also appear to back me up, as more long distance runners have managed the Olympic 5000 and 10000m double, than has managed to do the 800 and 1500m double:
Zatopek, Kuts, Viren (x 2), Yifter, Bekele and Farah (x 2) all managed to do the former Olympic double since WW2, whereas only Snell has managed the 8 & 15 double in the same time period. That is my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but a coherent argument as to why you disagree would be more favourable than using a quote I never gave and using it out of context on a different thread!

I've never stated 'Brits are more ethical'. Commenting on factual doping busts and pointing out that there have been a lot of Kenyans recently is not the same as stating Brits are good. That is, quite frankly, a childish conclusion to make. To be blunt, you are the one who is focusing on 'Brits'in your last paragraph (to the exclusion of any other nation) when the previous poster mentioned half a dozen non European nations.
-Dina Asher Smith ran 10.99 and 22.07 as a 19 year old in 2015; improving to 10.85 (0.14sec improvement) & 21.89(0.18 sec improvement) in 3 seasons does not look suspect to me at all. There have been dozens of US and Jamaican sprinters with far more irregular progression than that. She could well be a doper. But I don't know! If she refuses a test or fails one, then I will have no time for her accomplishments.
-Please tell me which field events the UK is currently leading the world in?
- As for Farah, I have always had my reservations about his late progress and career progression, and I've stated as such on these boards. So we are singing from the same hymn sheet on that one. Unfortunately, he's never been caught or failed a drug test, and no I don't think that there has been some conspiracy at the very top to protect him, he's just been very careful with how and where he trains. If he is guilty and it comes out retrospectively, I will be the first in line to be critical of him and expect his medals to be passed on.

Your final sentence-" For sure I would never accuse seomeone without proof - just the overall view Kenyans are ALL "bad", Brits are (almost) all "good" is just laughable.[/quote] is nothing I have ever written. I have never stated or implied that all Kenyans dope and all Brits don't. I'm afraid you seem to have been angered by someone else, and because I agreed with that person on one or two points, you've decided to have a good old rant at me. Well, here's hoping it's made you feel better.

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