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scorpion_runner
RE: why do Jack Daniels M pace workouts destroy me?

FastJogger wrote:

Doing the 40-50mpw 5k-10k plan. At the end of Phase 2. Been here twice before. Usually lose interest around the end of Phase 3 due to weather, other distances and activities.

I can finish my M workouts just fine. I finish them feeling like I could go a bit harder, and further. I’ve learned to hit the times, and no more. The problem is the aftermath. Completely wrecked. Sore where I’m usually not. Tired to the point of feeling drugged. Can barely knock out a 3 mile easy run the next day.

I have a very honest vdot. I can hit my times through R, T and I workouts (at less than ~65F). I’ve averaged 30mpw for ~3 years, with the occasional 40-50 mile week thrown in there. I do lots of 1-2 hour hard runs on trails with 1000-3000ft of vertical. I’ve been at 35-45mpw for the past 3 months (the 35 mile weeks usually involve some loose, rocky, 10-15% grades so I’m power hiking). I usually run 4-7 times a week. I do my easy runs at a pace that ensures I’ll be able to hit my next Q workout’s times. That is usually on the fast side of the suggested easy pace. I do the easy runs without a watch – just go by feel. I make sure to have 2-3 very easy days before my M workouts, as I’m so afraid of them.

Is this common? Does this indicate something? Should I tweak my workouts? Just not sure what it means.

A few notes on other paces:
T pace - easy for me. I can easily run two vdots faster and feel good after – but it might impact the workout two days later.
R pace (track) - could maybe go a vdot faster, if I had two easy days before and it was nice and cool.
I pace - just hold on for dear life!

I do all of these at such a pace that I can do a decent 3-8 mile easy run the next day. Except for M pace stuff.

Any thoughts or insights would be greatly appreciated.


Why do you guys take his book so literal, when he stated that those numbers and phases are recommendations?

If you find the pace or workout to be extreme, then reduce the pace or the workouts. If the recommended M pace is too fast, just reduce the pace to a more comfortable pace. You will reap the same benefits without the burnout.

Every week there is post about Jack Daniel's paces being too aggressive or to passive.....just adjust to what you are comfortable with.

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