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Racer1
RE: Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Sir Lance-alot wrote:
So, it sounds like you are leaning fairly strongly towards the "many Kenyans are dirty" theory.


The farthest thing from it. The propensity for people, especially on this board, to indict every African runner who runs fast as a "druggie" is among the more ignorant, foolish things one could do.

I do not at all lean towards the "Kenyans are dirty" theory.


1) Rosa DEFINITELY doped cyclists. Was this ever PROVEN BEYOND ANY DOUBT? (I really don't know. But I thought he was brought up on charges, but never convicted. Besides that, lots and lots of rumor. Show the exact doping convictions against him. And like I said, I am really asking, though I surely thought the charges were controversial)

2) Kenyans' performances skyrocketed in conjunction with their association with Rosa, who is, according to you, a convicted performance-enhancing drug-prescriber.

3) He is a proven liar.


I gave an example of him lying. As for the cycling allegations, that is stuff you can research. There are many allegations against him and evidence of him exiting cycling with a suddenness that defies "coincidence."

As I said as well, because performance skyrocketed does not mean they were not clean. But it is another strike against Rosa, who already has at least 2 against him.


So.......put it all together, and it seems like you believe that many, many (after all, Rosa is associated with LOTS of Kenyan runners) Kenyans are dirty.


No.


And that is the theory many propose to explain their (the East Africans in general) dominance and the incredible jump in WR's the last 15 years. OK, sounds like you are sort of buying into that theory.


Again, no.


BUT.....if you go down that road.......don't stop. Because if 3:26 (we already know the Morrocans have had some dirty athletes), 7:20, 12:39 (Komen), and 26:27 & 2:05 (Tergat) are all ONLY possible with drugs (and lets face it, THAT is the general contention of many who believe that drugs are the MAIN reason for the huge drop in WR's in that last dozen years), THEN..............does that mean Bekele, and Geb, and Ngeny, and Lagat, and Kemboi, Sihine, and Kipketer, and Kipchoge, and Koech, and Korir, and Rutto, and Barmasi and Shaheen are ALL ON DRUGS????


Look, there are top athletes who are cheating.

Ali Said-Sief, Mohammed Mourhit, Brahim Boulami, Alene Amere, Joyce Chepchumba, Cathal Lombard, and Regina Jacobs are some of the distance runners that come to mind.

These people evaded testing for YEARS before being caught, and some only when tests for new drugs became available.

Others have had run-ins with testing. Komen tested positive for caffeine, but it was determined that his was a genetic anomaly.

I do not say that ANY of those people you mentioned are dirty.

I have seen and read all about Bekele, El Guerrouj, Tergat, Gebrselassie, Shaheen, etc. and their training and lifestyle. If it is possible, they are the ones to do it.

But you must admit that they have put things beyond the realm of possibility for non-Africans, and if you read Rojo's article (https://www.letsrun.com/rojospeaksmay23.html)

the evidence points to drug use in SOME capacity.


I aks that , because ALL those people I just mentioned have run either better, as good as, or nearly as good as the earlier aforementioned "too good to be true"/ "supposedly tainted" / "controversial" performances I mentioned (some of which were done by Rosa athletes, and most were Kenyan times). Don't you see where I am going with this? There are LOTS of East African (and some North African) runners running "extraordinary" times these days. Now I know that this drug issue is not an absolute either/or proposition, that EITHER the East Africans are dirty OR they are not, BUT........to use drugs to explain away the extraordinary improvements in WR's in the last 15 years, one SORT OF HAS TO go to one side or the other. Either you think the LARGE MAJORITY of East Africans ARE ON DRUGS or you think the LARGE MAJORITY ARE CLEAN. Because, if so many (as I contend) of the East Africans (with a possible few exceptions) can do these times clean, they clearly they don't NEED the drugs to perform like that, and the idea that "the only way to explain such and such a time is drugs" theory falls apart.


Actually, ther very best do NOT benefit from drugs.

The ones who benefit from drugs are the 2nd tier athletes. The best example of this is Cathal Lombard who "broke through" to 27:32 after using EPO, or Boulami who ran "7:53" and was drugged to the gills.

In short, I sincerely hope that the best people are not on drugs, but we may never know. I have no ability to say yes or no, but until they are caught, they are innocent.


Now The East African MEN AND WOMEN have a depth of performances in distance running that now are unquestionably the greatest we have ever seen in athletics bar none. Either drugs are playing a HUGE ROLE in this phenomenon or they are not. There are just too many great athletes doing these unbelievable performances to think: "well, 1/2 are and 1/2 aren't. " Why? Because do you think there were some CLEAN Chinese or East German women doing comparable performances to the Dirty ones???? Of course not. If you can be the best in the world clean, you will most likely NOT BOTHER DOING IT DIRTY (for most athletes).


Agreed. Remember, though, that non-African women are much more up there with people like Radcliffe, etc. who are BETTER than any African.

Sonia O'Sullivan used to be among them and Kim Smith is also very good, as well as Benita Johnson.

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