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Sir Lance-alot
RE: Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Racer1 wrote:
Rosa was caught for doping offenses and driven out of cycling.
When he began coaching Kenyans, performances skyrocketed.
This not to say it ISN'T being done cleanly--it may be.
But he has proved himself a liar before.

So, it sounds like you are leaning fairly strongly towards the "many Kenyans are dirty" theory. Yes, you are not 100% certain, but you say:

1) Rosa DEFINITELY doped cyclists. Was this ever PROVEN BEYOND ANY DOUBT? (I really don't know. But I thought he was brought up on charges, but never convicted. Besides that, lots and lots of rumor. Show the exact doping convictions against him. And like I said, I am really asking, though I surely thought the charges were controversial)

2) Kenyans' performances skyrocketed in conjunction with their association with Rosa, who is, according to you, a convicted performance-enhancing drug-prescriber.

3) He is a proven liar.

So.......put it all together, and it seems like you believe that many, many (after all, Rosa is associated with LOTS of Kenyan runners) Kenyans are dirty.

And that is the theory many propose to explain their (the East Africans in general) dominance and the incredible jump in WR's the last 15 years. OK, sounds like you are sort of buying into that theory.

BUT.....if you go down that road.......don't stop. Because if 3:26 (we already know the Morrocans have had some dirty athletes), 7:20, 12:39 (Komen), and 26:27 & 2:05 (Tergat) are all ONLY possible with drugs (and lets face it, THAT is the general contention of many who believe that drugs are the MAIN reason for the huge drop in WR's in that last dozen years), THEN..............does that mean Bekele, and Geb, and Ngeny, and Lagat, and Kemboi, Sihine, and Kipketer, and Kipchoge, and Koech, and Korir, and Rutto, and Barmasi and Shaheen are ALL ON DRUGS????

I aks that , because ALL those people I just mentioned have run either better, as good as, or nearly as good as the earlier aforementioned "too good to be true"/ "supposedly tainted" / "controversial" performances I mentioned (some of which were done by Rosa athletes, and most were Kenyan times). Don't you see where I am going with this? There are LOTS of East African (and some North African) runners running "extraordinary" times these days. Now I know that this drug issue is not an absolute either/or proposition, that EITHER the East Africans are dirty OR they are not, use drugs to explain away the extraordinary improvements in WR's in the last 15 years, one SORT OF HAS TO go to one side or the other. Either you think the LARGE MAJORITY of East Africans ARE ON DRUGS or you think the LARGE MAJORITY ARE CLEAN. Because, if so many (as I contend) of the East Africans (with a possible few exceptions) can do these times clean, they clearly they don't NEED the drugs to perform like that, and the idea that "the only way to explain such and such a time is drugs" theory falls apart.

There may be a few bad apples, kind of need to pick a side here.

The East African Men ABSOLUTELY DOMINATE the rest of the world in distance running, and have ABSOLUTLELY CRUSHED previous WR's. And now the East African WOMEN are starting to ABSOLUTLEY CRUSH the rest of the world in women's distance running (with a few exceptions). If you think such utter dominance and improvements in times is hard to fathom, well either you think drugs are the main explanation for this phenomenon or you don't. I CLEARLY DO NOT. Such a conspiracy could never be so widespread and last so long without being discovered.

The Chinese women fell apart once their drug use was "outed" (their swimmers, some of their runners, etc). Did the men ever do anything???? No. Drugs DID explain that phenomenon.

The dominace of East German "women" fell apart once their wide-spread drug use stopped. Did their men ever do anything comparable in running??? No way (some performances, but nothing like their women sprinters). Drugs explained that phenomenon.

Now The East African MEN AND WOMEN have a depth of performances in distance running that now are unquestionably the greatest we have ever seen in athletics bar none. Either drugs are playing a HUGE ROLE in this phenomenon or they are not. There are just too many great athletes doing these unbelievable performances to think: "well, 1/2 are and 1/2 aren't. " Why? Because do you think there were some CLEAN Chinese or East German women doing comparable performances to the Dirty ones???? Of course not. If you can be the best in the world clean, you will most likely NOT BOTHER DOING IT DIRTY (for most athletes).

Clearly so many of the East Africans are running mind-boggling performances clean. So there is no reason to assume many would bother with trying it dirty Some might, some in all countries do. But if it is only a few bad apples, as I contend, your "Dr Rosa is currently a dirty coach " theory and "the huge drop in Kenyan in performances is due to drugs" theory both fall flat.

Pick a side Racer1. Are you accusing Renato's athletes of doing drugs too? Because he has guys that can run with Rosa's. Does Rosa only pick the slow guys? Or the dishonest ones??

With the East African phenomenon, drugs are NOT the main explanation (they may play a very small role, its possible). No way, no how.

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