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John Andrews
RE: Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

X_-RUNNER wrote:

First Gebre 12:39:36 that´s a single world record, once in a lifetime. You may not based your calculations in a once in a life time or an old PB and consider that Race Pace to estimate averages. This is the first mistake people do. They calcul race Pace by their PB´s and often they are not in that physical condition. In the Gebre´s case will be more realistic to calculate a RP around 13:00 min.

Race pace for Gebrselassie is not 13:00 for 5,000. I used his PB as an example that even when in sub-12:40 shape, I am sure he could not do 3x3000m in 7:35. He races tactical 3K's in 7:30-7:33. He could not do 3 of them that fast with 3 min. recovery between. Geb just ran 12:55 in London and is preparing for the Olympics. He ran the second half of the 10L last year in 12:58. He is in far better shape than 13:00, or he would not bother showing up at the Olympics.

And when Renato gives training examples, he also uses an athete's PB. That's just the way you do it.

Secondly Renato said "FOR EXAMPLE" he didn´t said "in your case particular you are able to do". Do you know what are an examples? That´s figurative. Also Renato said"long intervals ..."for an AMOUNT of aabout 2 times the lenght of the race" he didn´t said "PRECISELY for 2 times the lenght of the race".

No need for petty insults. I know what an example is. The example provided, for any runner, seems dubious. I do not know of any runner, elite, national class, or otherwise, who could do 3 repetitions of 60% of their race distance with just a 3 minute recovery. And I never said anything about the volume of the work. 2 times 5000m equals 10,000 meters. 3x3000m adds up to 9,000m. I was not using the example of a 10,000m worth of volume session.

Third, 5000m top class runners (12:36 to 13:12 they are able to do at sea level 3X3000m with 3min interval close 8:00. I´ve seen 20 years ago (!) portuguese Fernando Mamede (13:11/27:13 PB´s) do 3X3000 sub 8:00. he did that naturally...

8:00 for 3,000 is not 7:35 for 3,000, no matter how you try to twist the numbers. 8:00 is 13:20 5,000 pace, lower than Gebrselassie's 10K pace. Take the example of Dan Browne, Tim Broe, or Jon Riley, all runners in the 13:16-13:20. range. They could assuredly NOT complete a session of 3K reps in under 8:00.

Riley ran an indoor 3K this year in 7:57 tying up. Guys like Webb and Ritz, also runners with PB's in the 13:20 range (or in Webb's case, the potential thereof) did some indoor races around 8:00 for 3K (Ritz ran maybe 7:58 as a I remember).

So your example is of no value.

If you read Mr. Antonio Cabral's articles on Portuguese training from Marius Bakken's site, Mamede is an outlier who was notorious for unbelievable workouts and comparatively pedestrian races.

Four. To prove that each individual that´s a individual case, Carlos Lopes (13:16/27:16) wasn´t able to do 3X3000 faster than 8:20 average.

Same example. Cabral noted that Lopes never did a sub-60 second quarter in his life during a workout. Notoriously UNDER-achieving workouts, fantastic races.

The original question I had for Renato is that the workoput he provided as THRESHOLD work seemed instead to be examples of VERY intense VO2 MAX work.

I mentioned that John Kellogg gave lactate threshold or anaerobic threshold workouts as continuous runs of 25-30 minutes or repeats of 3-4 minutes with short recoveries at a pace roughly corresponding to a range of 10,000 pace+ 15 seconds per mile or so (faster or slower in this range depending on rep distance).

But Renato's "Threshold" pace was cited as substantial work at faster than 5,000 meter race pace.

So there is either a divergence in definition of terms or a bid difference in the training of the system.

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