A Duck wrote:
Stop with the straw man arguments, stop with the misdirections, apples and oranges distractions.
You really want do this again?
See if you can be man enough not to delete the whole thread this time.
Is it possible you and your brother are a tad sociopaths? A tad delusional? Have you ever read any of psychology where it talks about twins supporting each others delusions? It's out there, you may want to seriously check it out.
Delusion: It's not about fair "questions and speculation," Wejo, it's about your personal beefs with the world and how you take them out on Lance, or dopers real or imagined.
You lost any credibility you two had with and on this site a long time ago through two acts:
1. You allowed immature and hateful people to personally attack Rupp as "g_y" because of his first name. You let it go on for years. You both even posted on the same threads without deleting those kinds of personal attacks on the guy. You allowed it to happen when he was technically a child in high school. At that time you also let people accuse him of being on PEDS. You allowed a hate crime type culture of hate to foster here. You did nothing to stop it for years.
2. You have some personal animosity towards Nike. It's clear, everyone sees it. You guys should admit it and recuse yourselves and the site from any more attacks and "speculation" on Rupp.
You have No Objectivity towards Rupp. And you had none before I even discovered this website.
As you showed yesterday, you are both only too happy to foster more lies and idiot speculation.
You also saw more voices come to the fore and challenge you and the liars. You should take note of that.
You and your brother do not behave like journalists or websites of any other sport or their fans. You've primarily attacked and fostered attacks on One Guy More Than All Others. In other sports the fans of opposing teams do the debating or the attacking. They call each other "f_gs" they don't come to a website hosted by you to attack one guy more than all others for years.
It's gone on too long and too far and you know it. You saw dozens of people fall on their swords and swear off Rupp bashing and give him kudo's after his silver.
Yesterday you let your personal animus fog your ethical thinking cap, and you regressed to your usual rote immaturity and excuses.
You should recuse yourselves and this site from threads "questioning or speculating" about Rupp. It's pushing a decade of bad faith, bad behavior. It's the worst kind of Mickey Mouse club you have created here.
It's not about being like other sports.
It's about bad behavior and your bad faith as a steward of any corner of the track and field community. You do these behaviors almost compulsively it seems...seeing as to how you don't even remember your previous work...and then you sell yourselves as the crusading do-gooders, when you are really the mud-slinging pond scum in this scenario.
It's about the better part of a decade of facilitating lies and attacks on One Guy far above and beyond any other single athlete. It's about harassment, harassment that started when he was a kid -- outright lies, and lazy random accusations...by proverbial anonymous internet cowards sanctified by two brothers who seem to get some twisted excitement of being engaged in this kind of bad faith human behavior on an internet forum...and you just happen to own said forum to feed this addiction.
On no other sports site, in no other sport has this been allowed on the internet. In swimming, you don't see two brothers owning a site and watching on their forums for years while a high school swimmer is called "a f_g" hundreds and hundreds of times. I've already answered team sports above. You guys are the worst actors in individual sports on the web. Bar None.
A website about a sport that people in the USA don't really care about much any more. As so many have said, you are doing a great job of killing the sport you love.
It's about understanding that our sport does not have the steel coat of the massive popularity that football has, and it is about realizing because our sport is so small, almost intimate -- YOU have a greater responsibility to community stewardship and standards. It is about calling you out to holding yourself to a higher standard. Because...as you saw from the Lance thread you deleted, I am not the only one who gets mad as hell at the dubious at best ethical standards you and your brother so often display.
Using PEDS is wrong. It's being horribly dishonest.
Lying is being dishonest.
Providing a very visible forum for a tiny sport, where anonymous cowards post lies and the owners themselves post innuendo egging them on...is also horribly dishonest. It is dishonest because you and I both know, that you know, and your brother know, that people have posted outright lies on this forum, again, and again, and again. And you let them stand in a sick justification.
The years of hateful name calling posts because his first name wasn't Robert. You just let that go on for years until I took up the cause.
You two seem to get some twisted thrill* by permitting it and seeing it, and egging it on. It is one thing to say "this is the kind of post I don't like" when you are not the owner. It is another thing to say that when you are the owner -- and can set a better standard and yet you don't. *It's like you guys are taking out childhood grudges on strangers in the public eye.
Yours is the only site about our bastrd, forgotten, neglected sport -- that allows such hateful, kneejerk, lazy and specious accusations -- as a culture. Without fail, your site, with this forum, ends up accusing EVERYONE. It's an echo chamber of inanity.
You and your brother are too close to it anymore to really understand the toilet you have let it become. How do you boil a frog? You run LRC for ten years, yadda. Little by little whatever standards of decency you two had...slipped down the rabbit hole of your own anger, cynicism, laziness, jealousy, animosity and jerk yourself a society of justificationism in your heads-ness.
I'm sorry neither of you were better runners. I really am. Believe me, like most of us, I feel your pain. We weren't born with the genetic gift to make an Olympic team, let alone win the gold.
But that doesn't make what you two do here right.
What you two do here -- is the Internet Equivalent of Doping.
Let me repeat that for you so it is clear: What you do here is the Internet Equivalent of Doping.
It's bad faith, and bad behavior, and lies.
Instead of being a responsible or even just decent forum and site where maybe you post real research and analysis. You just let anonymous morons accuse everyone. And then you join in, when you totally have the evidence to know better, because you published it! Huh?!?
That does two things, every so often you are right. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Meanwhile everyone else gets smeared. Everyone. It's amazing, in the world you've made, everyone gets accused. Some make fun of you by accusing the latest promising...12 year old.
No, there is no magical way to know who is clean and who is dirty. And you know you are being half baked with that defense. You also know in your guts that Rupp is clean. You've made "hey!" here and profited off his successes. You looked him in the eyes and asked him questions in the mix zone, you freaking know in your guts that he is clean.
You've looked the man in the eyes. And you know he's a good dude, and you know in your gut he is clean. And yet you get off on this delusional, viral Lord of the Flies you've created.
You can see by the posts around the Olympics that more people than ever are tired of your allowing anonymous people to smear Rupp. You can see by several other ip addresses of pro Rupp posters on this thread that the same is true today.
Stick with this post, it gets well worth it.
You've essentially fostered a decade of smearing and harassing of one main guy.
A decade of harassment.
A decade of piling on.
We get it already, you have a private animus towards Nike.
I mean, that's really what it comes down to. When everyone really cuts the crp...that is what it is. We all know it.
I am sorry you guys weren't better runners. I'm sorry Nike hurt your feelings in some way. And it ain't the fault of the guy you've cyber bullied and piled on for so long.
Not clear yet? Read on.
Let's focus it down to a thin slice. A beginning. Roots. The Root of the problem, shall we say?
A website with a culture of personal attacks and harassment towards one individual more than any other, by far, how does that happen?
--From the earliest days that Rupp became known to your site/forum, you have not only allowed anonymous twits to attack Rupp by calling him "g_y," ad nauseum...you and your brother also posted on those very same threads, with the attacks, while conveniently ignoring those attacks. Nothing changed until you got some heat. --We both know that, so don't drag out the "we put in a filter" excuse. I'm the one that turned up the heat to get you to put in a filter. (Which we both know you have since neutered).
I took you guys on about smearing Rupp, because it disgusted me. It disgusted me because of the lying. And the allowing people to call Galen "g_y" because his name wasn't Fred. It also disgusted me because I do know a lot of people behind the scenes in both track and field and sports media/broadcasting -- and everyone thought what you let go on here, what you let be said, what you said yourselves, all the "read between the lines" horsesht was...disgusting.
You let this be aimed at a high school kid. And you let half of it be about calling him "g_y" because of his names and average looks.
Nice job. What was it you or your brother said a week or so ago about wishing everyone would just treat each other with excellence here? Something like that? Did you do that yesterday? 6-7-8 years ago?
My guess is in your every day life you treat people well. It's just that you become a passive aggressive, tacit ahole on the internet, and sometimes worse.
What you have done and allow to do here, is not what good or nice people do. If I'd found that you understood those concepts years ago when I wrote you, I wouldn't need be so sharp edged on you now. Really, it is time to consider that you are wrong -- this whole idea of dividing your reporting, and then sporting on the forum smearing athletes...is wrong.
This behavior you two have convinced yourself in your little echo chamber is right or professional, isn't, it is the Internet equivalent of doping. It disgust me as much as doping does. It disgusts other people too. And it has chased hundred and hundred of good people away from your forums.
So I wrote you, got a lame excuse. You didn't say the behavior was bad. You didn't say you were disgusted at the g_y name calling. You just made an excuse about others being jealous. So, Writing you didn't work. Reporting posts didn't work. Being loud seemed to work some at allowing others to speak up and not be shouted down by the hate filled peanut gallery you've so often encouraged with your innuendo, lies and aholian tacit approval. And sometimes good people just came along and spoke up. Good on them.
We've all come to know, pathetically, that The Top Ten "public people" who have suffered personal attacks on your website...all have the last name of "Rupp,"and number 11 is "Salazar." So just quit with the mindless excuses.
For years you just acted like you didn't even notice that say...the two posts before you was engaging in these kinds of totally hate crime like attacks. The message was, and is still around on some level...Hey, the owners posted right after I called Rupp "g_y," so it must be okay, dudes. Well it is not okay, it was never okay, and yes you allowed it for years, and in that you approved it. And you didn't even try to stop into until a real behind the scenes effort was made. The real rules of your website, for years has been, it's okay to be disgusting, hey, the owners are. The more lies the better. Let's attack the guy on a hate crime level because of his name. Looks are fair game too. Who cares the kid is still in high school. Who cares he's only 19. Fair Game.
Who hit you guys with the hate stick?
If you had had the class to take a ZERO tolerance policy on people calling Rupp "g_y," ad nauseum, 90+% of your haters accusing him of doping would not be around to jerkwad with you in your echo chamber of lies, innuendo and inanity. Yours is the only website where such hate has been fostered, towards this dude, and towards ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL in our sport. You tapped into the idiot sapiens who just love to call someone something from a safe anonymous place and it's so funny and their so tough, and you think it is funny, because "young public figure" that you don't like gets trashed on the internet...where all his friends and family can innocently run into it. Because you got it wrong. When I do a search on Joe Flacco, I don't find some forum that allows the behavior you have. And it is Redskins fans attack Ravens fans, not owners of a site modeling for visitors to their site to attack a young runner with the worst things possible.
You fostered all this on your website when the dude was in high school. Not the NFL.
Way to go. Big men. Class acts.
He was a minor, and discovers he's good at running, and before he knows it he had what must have felt to him, his family and his friends, like a whole freaking website cyber bullying him. Because essentially that is exactly what you guys allowed to happen here. Disgusting.
There should have been, and should always be ZERO Tolerance on the g_y name calling. Because you allowed it, and participated on threads where it happened, you told the loonies who stumbled by "come on in, this place is for you." Here's a specific person to trash and bully in effigy on this forum. And that was just it. Any Rupp thread could, would and all too often did, drop fast from his latest race or accusations. "Let's all be disgusting whenever we want."
I think even you are intelligent enough to know that a lot of people play crazy on the internet, and probably 1% actually are. --You brothers sell crazy on this website like you own a monopoly on it. I bet you there is not a reputable site on anything anywhere on the internet that has let go on towards this one person what you have. And the worst part of that crazy is the hate and the bad faith and the cynicism and the mentality that says you don't care who gets hurt and how young or how they are attacked, you'll just make an excuse. And you attract more just like you cos they are anonymous... You created the perfect slime pond for low class, bad faith, bad behavior, lying, smearing, slandering, and you essentially said for a long long time..."okay to call this guy g_y, go for it, open season."
You're both married now, right? Thinking of having kids? Probably you are going to get humanized more in the coming years. Then maybe you'll be able to imagine what it is like for young people to get attacked on your website the way you facilitate and promote it. You know there are these excuses you give, and then there is reality, and reality is what any person in real life you would ask randomly about what you have fostered, allowed, permitted, and taken part in over the years...Maybe someday you'll Wake Up, and realize that you guys are meaningless to the sport as far as any real power to promote anything you like, or stop anything you don't. So stop trying to play gods. It's delusional. I'm sure every dirty runner hates you, if they know about you. I know every clean runner I have met is disgusted by you two and this website. One just posted it on her blog recently. That's not a badge of honor, guys, because most of the people you smear are innocent. And you don't have any achievements like the Woodward and Bernsteins of the world. And in fact, you don't go after the most likely dirty people in the sport...because it doesn't build hits or threads.
You don't go after dirty people in the sport like your heroes have. You smear everyone over time and just think that that is somehow providing a service. Oooh, big bad LRC is watching. When in fact you don't really do anything when you could. The energy you spend accusing people, could be spent cleaning up this site, and making it a place encouraging young people to just do it the right way...and then maybe your website would not be banned from almost every highs chool and college running team in the nation.
Fair questions and speculation?
I'd like you to honestly explain to me how letting a kid be called g_y on your website hundreds and hundreds of times for years, and leaving it up there and posting on the same threads was "fair"? You saw it, you let it go on, you fostered a community of hate on your forums towards one guy.
Explain why it was cool with you to call Rupp "g_y" on your website for so many years? Why?
You didn't show zero tolerance, you didn't delete those posts, religiously. In fact you saw them and allowed them for years, posted on the same threads, and you know it.
You can't explain how it was fair, because it wasn't and it isn't and it was and is some of the lowest forms of behavior on or off the internet.
What the h*ll happened to you guys in your lives that made you turn out so easily quietly angry, cynical, and dishonest?
I want to read you say "It was a mistake, it was wrong."
And clueless, you never thought this would have have any comeuppance? Lance Armstrong was shtty to people. You own this site, stop hiding behind other people's bad behavior that you know you are inviting, and own that you own this site you are this site. Just as Armstrong as a bully, you've been a bully. You've treated people shtty, just like Lance Armstrong treated people shtty. He had a little mafia, you had a website that could attract a new mafia every other day. Why do you do this?
You have and were not treating this like any other sport, because in any other sport the owner-journalist would write a researched article and post it with their name behind it.
You use the most slimeball techniques on the web.
Seriously. If you don't get it, if you don't see it when you are being dishonest here and deceitful, you are suffering from some mild delusion at least.
Yesterday was a pathetically perfect example. Questioning Rupp's progression? You covered it every step of the way! You could not be any more phoney and deceitful.
Years ago when I wrote you and asked you why you allowed that behavior on your site, you didn't answer the question.
What you said was "people are jealous of the support he gets from Nike."
You know what? That isn't what I read ANYONE say. That is what I read YOU say.
Point in fact, I am merely the loudest of many people that have called you and your brother out for your immature animus towards Nike. (For the record, I wear both Puma and Nike).
The truth of the matter is you guys have some bad blood or anger at Nike for some personal reason...that has absolutely nothing to do with Rupp. You won't admit here (Nike wouldn't sponsor, help, advertise, snubbed, whatever, we all know you don't like them.) Because of this you two allowed this forum to shamefully turn in to a Lord Of The Flies pig chant about mostly one guy. A high schooler. A college kid. ONE GUY. --You know dmned well there was only one Public Figure taking the worst of it on your site, and you did nothing about it and joined in in your own ways, until myself and others rattled your cage.
We also know that you believe in your gut that Rupp was clean at 16, just as you believe in your gut that he is clean now at 26. You freaking predicted...because of his improved 1500 speed and kick, that he would medal in London, and then you freaking celebrated it here on this site. You have looked that guy in the eyes, when he was a kid, and now as a young man, and asked him questions, and you know in your gut he is clean. Here in the dark corner of the slow season, you break out the innuendo and dishonesty again...when we all know you will pony up to him like a Fanboy next chance you get and ask him a real running question. Cos you know he is clean. If you thought otherwise, you have had multiple chances to nut up and ask him any question you wanted to. So this dishonesty and cynicism of yours...it is some illness that you and your brother share and support each other in.
It is bad faith from jump street, compounded by bad behavior on the internet.
Let's say for a moment I'm wrong. I've been duped by my loyalty and friendships. I'll be the first person to admit it. LOUDLY. But, I'm never going to have to, because Rupp is never going to test positive, because he's never going to be dirty. And I know that because I have seen enough up close to know they are clean.
Alberto is clearly very focused and driven, and the one thing I never hear anyone talk about is his intelligence. He's incredibly well educated and he's incredibly intelligent.
Now let's say for a moment YOU are wrong. And Galen goes his whole career, testing gets tougher and tougher, bio passport and he never ever tests positive. Are you going to put on your big boy pants an apologize? Gonna reach back through the years and say "we're sorry, we blew it, we were really immature, we didn't know what we were doing, we shouldn't have approved of people calling you g-y and falsely accusing you for so long, we're really, really, really sorry..." You gonna do that? --Maybe a little note, some nice stationary?
You see, the thing is, letting people call him g-y for so long, and why I repeat this, is because you let it go on for so long, it took a lot to get you to even try to stop it...you posting on the same threads yourself -- and didn't get how messed up that was for owners of your site...the cost was...you lost all credibility with good people in real life. You lost any veracity you had. A lot of those people would love to come back if you cleaned this place up.
How can you or your brother with a straight face....honestly encourage people to question Rupp's 1500/mile evolution after you carried the whole thing story by story for 2+ years??? After multiple posters posited for years that Rupp's PB in those distances were soft and he had lots more to do. It all just feeds into the bad faith you display resulting in the disgusting attacks you fostered on this guy since he was a kid. NOT ONLY DO YOU GOT NO CREDIBILITY, you owe the guy and his family an apology.
You owe Rupp many apologies -- and you know that deep inside yourself when you try to catch his eye and ask him a question in the mix zone.
What if you find yourself looking back at the greatest homegrown running talent in USA history, clean from day one, a once every 50 years talent...and you got to see the whole thing unfold with the perfect coach and the perfect handling...and it just becomes one of the greatest sports stories of your life...
Except you get to look back as one of the two aholes who were the aholes letting people call him g_y on your website because his name wasn't Wheldon and he didn't look like Bob Kennedy. And you were the guys letting people post crazy threads accusing him of being on this and that when he was in high school, on
your website -- when he was doing it right and was clean the whole dmned time -- and you were the ONLY place on the web, or in the sport, engaging in this kind of smear, slander and hate. All while you two acted like it was no big deal, nothing ill in that behavior.
How you going to unring all those bells?
How you going to make amends?
How you going to man up and apologize? --Seek an audience with Alberto to apologize? He's Christian enough, he might accept the invite. What stretches my mind is why wouldn't you just want to get over your immature grudges and stop being the internet or journalism equivalent of doping?
You are not WADA, or the investigative journalists on Balco. You're just two guys missing out on better opportunities.
Lowest form of athlete: Doper.
Lowest form of sport website/forum: yours.
Say you want to question and speculate? Go do some real investigative journalism like your heroes in the Lance take down quest. THAT is your answer to fair questions and speculation.
Get out there and do it, there are your opportunities.
There is nothing fair in what you do now.
We all know these games you play are just nonsense and crp, bad faith nonsense and crp that you foster because of your personal animus towards Nike. Because of your animus you think it is good business to fuel bad faith specious attacks on One Specific Dude. It's been unfair and uncool since day one, and it is uncool now.
You are not acting like any other sports journalists or website, you are acting below that.
I highly recommend that you and your brother read over the other posts on this thread That Specifically Defend Rupp. You know they aren't me, and you know they are Spot On.
So we're just looking at a little slice here to get an understanding.
Explain to me how it was fair and questioning and speculative to stand by for years while people slandered Rupp as g_y? You seem to need some repetition because you never answer this question, you just dodge it. Remember, you didn't change either your behavior as individuals, or put in a filter, until myself and others hammered you guys behind the scenes.
So how was that acceptable?
How was that cool?
If Rupp was your cousin, you never would have allowed it, would you?
How do I know? Because when similar behavior was aimed at other young athletes, it was deleted with diligence not seen in this case. How else do I know? Because every time I've seen someone call you and your brother "fa ots" or some such, I check back, and seems like it's always deleted. Wait, I thought you and your brother were "public figures" who had been called "dopers" too? You weren't sensitive, you could take it?
How about you fashion and honest response this time, how about you admit you've behaved badly, been dishonest and deceitful. You've had go after go after go and Lance, recently, and now I've taken a few runs at you. Why don't you take some time to REALLY get it.
You fostered a site that attacked one guy, more than any others, from youth to adulthood, in the worst and most unfair ways, for years... The years of allowing the "g_y" name calling until we hounded you -- lost you any credibility at objectivity at this guy. It was so bad, and you know it was so bad, and you let it be so bad, because you encouraged hating on the guy because of your own biases, that you went along with the name calling. It's been enough already. You want to be fair, you should recuse yourself and this site for accusing or floating anymore rumors at Rupp of any kind. It's been enough. I know you know he is clean, and you know that smearing him feeds your Nike hate and what ever your unspoken beef is. It is not fair to one individual for you to pile on for years anytime he races.
You're hearing more and more people telling you that it isn't cool.
Your credibility to continue attacking the guy, left the station long ago and is completely void.
And no you can't blame it on the internet any more. 1997 called and wants its internet excuses back. You have the tech to clean this up.
The only possible explanations are:
1. We don't like Nike and we don't care who we hurt
2. We're light witted and low class and we just don't give a crp.
3. We made a mistake, we're rethinking policies
I don't for a minute believe that you believe Rupp doped in high school or college. You lorded over his losses, and you know damned well that if he was doping he wouldn't have lost so much for so long...while obviously having talent and all that support.
Your idea that Rupp's 1500/mile progression is questionable.
Either one of you even trying to cite that as questionable is the height of arrogance and stupidity -- YOU FREAKING LINKED the whole evolution as it was happening, over 2 years...from Salazar announcing the focus on shorter stuff, to the training, to race goals, to the actual races and results.
You made headlines and money off it. Yep, you linked to all those article, interviews and videos from Flotrack and other sources revealing the new focus in his training and racing. You linked to the Goe articles/links where Salazar first tells you/the press about the new training focus, he then shows you/the press videos of the training, then he tells you why, and he tells you what Rupp must do ("I told him 'if he can't out sprint Lagat in the last 100m's at the Olympic Trials he has no chance in the Olympics.") Salazar has been telling you and showing you/the media for over 2 years the plan for getting Rupp faster at the 1500/mile." You covered the story, you linked to every single bit of his breakthrough 1500m last spring??? You covered it completely...and then you really think you aren't supposed to sound stupid, in bad faith, or lying and in just plain bad behavior calling out Rupp's progression in the mile yesterday?
COME ON, MAN.
You've posted the ENTIRE history on your own site, week by week as it happened. I MEAN THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR SITE, RIGHT? TO COVER TRACK AND FIELD?
At least 2 other people pointed that out to you on this thread before I did. I mean it's incredulous you guys try and insult your readers that way. There's only a few explanations...you forgot, or you think we're dumb?
Think about it. Seriously, your credibility is far more in question than Salazar or Rupp's. It's your job to cover this stuff, and then you did, and then act like you never heard about it or saw it? What? That's just crazy. You don't even remember the arcs of what you cover about a guy who's one of the most covered guys you report on on your site??? Just no credibility in that.
Why was I repetitive? Because I felt you needed the repetition to get through your selective memory.
This should be a popup that must be read any time Wejo and Rojo feel like posting.