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Not Ouch
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread
I presume you have read what Ouch1000 had to say
http://kiplitton.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/update-discussion-on-history.html
Presumably Clarkston Kent knows more, I can't remember if he has elaborated previously on this thread.

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