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give me a break
RE: A Lydiard Thread

Admirer of Lydiard wrote:
The fact that Arthur collected gold medal winners and world record holders from the neighborhoods around him speaks volumes about what his training can do for someone without reams of talent.

Igloi and many other coaches have done the same. Right? Do you really thing that other coaches from the days of yesteryear(40's, 50's, 60's) recruited athletes from "far away lands" to develop? No, they worked with whom they had near them. Later, if they became popuar coaches, they did indeed spread their "word " to foreign lands and athletes (Van Aaken, Lydiard and Igloi did this). So nothing unique about Lydiard developing "local" athletes to greatness. It happened in his day all the time, ie, it happened with almost EVERY coach who developed an athlete to greatness.

Admirer of Lydiard wrote:
Many 800m runners used and use long runs.
The fact that other 800m runners have run fast without long runs doesn't mean that long runs aren't NECESSARY to achieving FULL potential.


And the fact that some 800m runners have run fast WITH long runs doesn't mean that they NEEDED them or that they were a key ingredient to their success. It works both ways. You can't say whether Snell would have done just as well with or without his long runs. Obviously though, they seemed to worked for HIM (but others have not needed them).

Admirer of Lydiard wrote:
Wilson Kipketer ran 3 times 1:41, and he ran long as a child if I remember correctly. Sebastian Coe ran long--I;ve read stories about him doing 14 mile road runs in blizzards with his father driving a car next to him.



HA HA!! I just LOVE arguments like that one. " Kipketer .... ran long as a child if I remember correctly." I don't think I will take your word on that one, sorry. People like you start merging every world class athlete's training program into one homogenous one(steamrolling or ignoring any obvious differences) that become the same progam(in your eyes), so you can further erase any doubts that St Arthur figured it all out or that there are any other programs that are different or just as successful as his. (and... if I remember correctly....Kipketer was one of those rare Kenyans that did NOT do a lot of running as a youth. I know Tergat "walked nice and slow a short distance to school" as a youth, and I thought Kipketer was another great Kenyan that took some air out of the theory that all East Africans were great because they all ran 20 miles day as children. And Coe might have run long occasionally, but it was hardly a cornerstone of his program)
[quote]Admirer of Lydiard wrote:
Igloi was a great coach, but few around the world use his theories. All respect to Bob Schul, but 13:38, even on cinders, will shut you out of world class competition.
But Snell's 1:44 on grass (1:42 on Mondo) would have been #1 in the world last year!
[quote]

A) How would Bob Schul's 13:38 on cinders from 40 years ago translated to mondo rate him amongst AMERICAN performers today??? Probably right up there with our best. Impressive, eh? So really, the big change is that EAST AFRICANS dominate the 5k and 10k like nothing we've ever seen before. And THAT is why Schul's performance would "shut him out" of international competition, not because it was performed under an inferior Igloi program. VIRTUALLY EVERY NON-AFRICAN RUNNER IN THE WORLD TODAY (besides Mottram), USING A LYDIARD PROGRAM OR NOT, WILL BE "SHUT OUT OF WORLD CLASS COMPETITION." Puts your Schul comment in perspective, eh? The 800 just is not an East African dominated event as much as 5k and 10k are, which is where their natural brilliance lies. So don't ignore that important aspect when making your point: you are talking about 2 different events. The 800 has stagnated big-time in the last 25 years, the 5k and 10k have blown up. And this due almost entirely to the "East and North African factor."
B) I will always have some doubts about temporary tracks measured on grass from 40+ years ago (and that is a legit comment). But lets even remove those doubts and say, fine, Snell ran 1:44 all those years ago. So....
C) What OTHER Lydiard athletes(DIRECTLY coached) have run times that would be world class today??? NONE. So your argument against the times of Igloi's athletes is rather silly. Are you gonna say Snell alone proves Lydiard was the best coach ever? Because he is all you have if you want to only look at Lydiard athletes whose times would be world class TODAY.
You made a bad argument and you know it

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