LateRunnerPhil - Tinman Training Through Summer to 5k PR in Sep (Goal ~15:30)

Eating 5000cals a day is probably too much. I mean 5000 is a lot! You will get fat, your times will get worse and like we can assume from your history you will respond by going harder in your workouts.

Week 4&5 - not much happened, took 6 days completely off due to extreme shin pain. Very swollen area at the bone. Slow intro back to running, including a 4k tempo in 3:47/k on the track.

Week 6 (7h20min, 59.5 miles):

Finally a week with running again.

6/8 - 90 min in 7:30/mi hilly trails (good weather)

6/9 - 45 min 7:40/mi + 36 min ez swim

6/10 - 70min incl. 5k @Tempo (3:53/k) & 8x200 in ~37, 100m rest. Felt very bad during tempo, 200s were better.

6/11 - 45 min 8:00/mi + 33 min swim + 30 min core

6/12 - 50 min 7:30/mi & 6x20s ST.

6/13 - 70 min incl. 5x1000m @CV in 3:32/k, on track & 5x30s hill sprints. In 31C/88F and sun, easy breathing, just tough on overall body. Took a longer break after 3 reps and drank ~2l during the workout + 25 min double in 7:30/mi

6/14- 45 min 8:10/mi.

Left shin pain was manageable at times, but after each hard day (LR+workouts), it was definitely more painful the next day. 30 min core on Thursday made the whole body sore and I'm still recovering from that 3 days later (should be good tomorrow tho). Was the first time since a long time.

New plan to battle the shin pain is to only run on soft surfaces, keep mileage at max 60 mpw, buy a new pair of shoes and cross-train every day. Also running in the heat if available to increase stimulus while running slower paces.

Absolute mad lad running that type of week with shin splints that steadily got worse, I don’t see how you’ll maintain let alone progress

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Also running in the heat if available to increase stimulus while running slower paces.

Dude, you're officially off the deep end. Training in heat just makes your body work harder, it does not necessarily improve the training stimulus. Your thinking is revealing the depths of this problem.

Why are you still posting your training here if you're not gonna respond to people anyone? Is this just a piece of the compulsion? This is becoming surreal. Your progress with training will happen in a therapist's office. I'm not joking, I have gone through something similar. You need to address your compulsion now before it destroys you. It is affecting every facet of your life that I can see here, all the way back to video gaming. Running is just a habit that APPEARS healthier. You engaging in an unhealthy way, no doubt about it.

What is wrong with you?

1 + 1 = 2 wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Also running in the heat if available to increase stimulus while running slower paces.

Dude, you're officially off the deep end. Training in heat just makes your body work harder, it does not necessarily improve the training stimulus. Your thinking is revealing the depths of this problem.

Why are you still posting your training here if you're not gonna respond to people anyone?

I respond, but sometimes I need longer to reply or don't have an answer. Why I'm training in the heat on purpose now and not in the morning/evening when it's cooler and not full sun? Because I want to work hard aerobically with lowest impact on my legs. My shin bones/muscles/tendons can't differentiate between 50F and 90F, but they know the difference between intervals at 5:20 pace and intervals at 5:40 pace and 7 minute pace to 7:40 pace on easy runs.

Magness agrees and lists a large lists of benefits to training in the heat. He is based in Houston, so that guy knows how effective heat is. He also brought the example of Frank Shorter going to Florida to train.

By training in the heat, my average pace decreases significantly, which takes off load from my muscles, lower legs, tendons, sinews, bones, feet etc.

Will it prepare me better for a 5k at 5:00/mi pace than doing intervals closer to that pace? Maybe not, but right now it's what I have to do until I'm fully healed. Then, once I start training in good weather again, I'll be so fit that running a 15:30-45 5k will be a walk in the park.

You need your head looking at. You're telling us all that you're injured and you're throwing in training weeks like that. You're either bullshitting or just plain stupid.

I'm in a predicament. If I get specific at all, we'll keep going around in circles as you justify your practices, but the only way to get you to respond is by being specific. Lately, it's felt like most people commenting in the thread are trying to get you to see something about yourself, and you haven't acknowledged what they said. I have to try and nail it:

Do you agree, at all, with those of us warning you about compulsive tendencies we are noticing? You don't have to change anything you're doing, I am just wanting to know if you are hearing us and our concern.

Believe it or not, we would be happy to sit with you and work through any of this stuff.

phil ran 14 200s today, as part of a larger workout, whee

Any updates, Phil?

Week 7 (5h40min, 50 miles):

Shin pain (which seems to be more like a healing stress fracture/reaction now) between light and moderate. Decided to train through while it keeps healing and take off if hop test shows too much pain. No running doubles, but lots of swimming doubles.

6/15 - Day Off (lots of pain after the Saturday workout + double run, then slogged through pain on Sunday and got even worse, so just a swim this day)

6/16 - 65 min 7:50/mi, very hill trails

6/17 - 65 min incl. 2x7x200 @Mile (34/35), 100m rest & 3k T in 3:35/k. Extremely humid (95%+), therefore a lot tougher than under ideal conditions. That's very good tho, an immense stimulus without hard pounding that faster paces would give. + 25 min double

6/18 - 50 min 6:40/mi - on asphalt in new shoes (Altra Escalante 1.5), therefore faster than usual easy run

6/19 - 55 min 6:50/mi & 6x20s ST. Heavy rain, same as yesterday (asphalt, new shoes)

6/20 - 80 min incl. 5x1600 @T (3:30/k) & 5x30s hill sprints. Good workout, was raining which makes it easy and keeps the HR low.

6/21- Day Off. After three days on hard surface (asphalt/track) my legs felt it, so just swam today.

Also swam most days as cross-training, for an additional 5 hours of aerobic work.

Added magnesium as supplement since I believe tight muscles led to my injuries. Also replaced most shoes, 500+ miles from 165 lbs is a lot of damage to them, and I also found out that some of my shoes were too small and too narrow. The Altra Escalante US 12 fits perfectly, next I'll try the Clifton 6.

This week has a big workout on Wednesday, 10x400 @3k with only 100m rest, and a tempo+9x200 on Saturday. Will continue to "hop test" each day. Last week I ran in the evening, and in the morning the spot on the shin bone hurt a lot. Then I went swimming/walking, and in the evening was able to run. Since I took off yesterday, I switched to morning runs again for now.

Phil--The medal goes to the fastest, not the stupidest.

Han Solo wrote:

I say this sincerely: get off this website, go to the doctor/get some x-rays or bone scans, and find a therapist to talk to.

I agree but you and me know that not gonna happen - seriously wonder how serious the guy is behind his computer.

Hi Phil, I have had a similar injury to yours (as you describe it), and it sounds like a muscle tear rather than a stress fracture. A muscle tear can be extremely painful. It is good advice to see a physio, they can do a quick ultrasound and identify the problem in no time, and treat it. If it is a muscle tear, the muscle will calcify when it heals and you will always feel pain from it when you ran fast; the physio can break down this calcification so that this does not occur. Tight muscles can come from overcompensation in consequence of the tear, and the physio will also be able to address this.

It's just a flesh wound.

Phils been mum on the shin pain, except for one slip-up. Love that phil is so compulsive over note-taking that he forgets to hide his severe injury from us (only mention of it)

"Shin pain is severe but didn't get worse at least."

https://www.strava.com/activities/3673751886

"No more running doubles"

Proceeds to do running doubles multiple days per week.

you should definitely take some time off - there is no point in training through severe shin pain. All you're doing is putting mediocre training that is going to make your injury last much longer than it actually should. See a physio, take 2 weeks off and go from there.

Week 8 (8h25min, 67 miles):

Decent week. Shin still healing, but finally running on each day again. Got in some speedier reps too this week to prepare for a 2k TT in the coming week so I can finally adjust my paces. It's summer now so a lot of runs and workouts are influenced by heat. I'm extremely bad in heat, despite sweating a lot, but I also get a lot out of training in the heat and start rolling as soon as it gets cooler again.

6/22 - 100 min LR 7:50/mi, hilly trails. My easy pace dropped since the shin splints, but I think that's ok.

6/23 - 50 min in 7:40/mi & 6x20s ST.

6/24 - 80 min incl. 2x5x400 @3k (74), 100m rest & 5x20s hill sprints & 5x100m strides. Everything was very fast, used the LT4 for the workout. Split the 10x400 instead of trying to gut it out which was smart. It was windy so I couldn't do 10 reps on that low rest without turning it into a race. I predicted that, and wanted to run 76s reps, which might have been doable as 10x400. However, the first one, despite holding back a lot was already a 73.4 and I refuse to slow down during workouts. + 25 min double

6/25 - 50 min 8:00/mi - legs dead from all the fast paces yesterday in flats.

6/26 - 45 min 7:30/mi & 5x20s ST. Legs better, but the sharp shin pain spot is back.

6/27 - 80 min incl. 6k Tempo (3:45/k) & 10x200 @ Mile (~33). Plan was 10k tempo & 10x200 @3k, 100 rest. It was very hot, 27-29C (80-84F) so I quit the tempo after 6k because I was very thirsty and struggling a bit (also already slowed the scheduled pace down from 3:35-3:40/k to 3:45/k). Shortly after, track lane 1 was occupied by a big team doing a 3k TT, so I stopped the tempo for sure instead of going for another 4k and started the 200s, which I changed to 10x200@Mile with 200 rest. + 25 min double

6/28- 50 min in 8:00/mi - legs dead in general again from the workout, couldn't move faster but didn't feel the shin at least. Better AFTER the run.

Training through is working well so far. I hit paces during workouts, and it never gets worse during a run. Main difference compared to having fresh legs is that the easy runs are slower, since running any faster would cause pain, and is also hard to do with pain/soreness. Not ideal of course, but seems to be working kind of.

Next week is just a soft-surface CV session on Wednesday and then a 2k TT on Saturday which I'm looking forward to. Plan is to start with 2 400s in 73/74 and then pick it up. I will probably set a mile PR during the TT, expect a very fast last 1k.