The Final Is Here: Deena Kastor or Jim Ryun - Who is the American GOAT?

Who’s Deena Kastor?

ventolin^5 wrote:

zxcvxczv wrote:

Regardless of what times they ran and medals, or medal, they won, you are not going to find anyone beating 1:39/3:24, Jim Ryun's potential fast track-pacers-proper splits times in 1967 shape, so I'm predicting he wins.

Ryun was good for

~44/1’39”/3’24”/3’41”

with proper pacing on a modern synthetic track. Undisputed GOAT!

I guess in order to have a truly fair contest, LRC should start the contest over again and list everyone's potential times.

still a miler wrote:

Jerry Maguire wrote:

Disappointing this is what we have to choose from. I really think Letsrun's write ups and posts swayed the vote as they were extremely biased.

This final GOAT matchup is like the coming November election.

Like it or not, RUPP & JENNY are the GOATS.

Agree with this, although I would have also been fine with Lagat or Centro. Jenny is the female winner.

I think Ryan, Lagat, Rupp, and Shorter are the men's Mt Rushmore. For women, I'd put Decker, Samuelson, Kaster, and ??? (Jennings, Flanagan, or Wilson). Sorry, but not Jenny.

How are two people who never actually won a world gold the “Top Americans”. Letsrun is absurd

zzzz wrote:

dont care what yall think wrote:

This.

This.

This^^^

Deena or Jim?

Frank Shorter.

While Deena was great, got to go with Ryun in this matchup as it is.

Multiple World Records can't be ignored. I believe World Records are just as, if not more, valuable than global medals. A World Record means that you were undisputedly the very fastest ever in the history of the entire world at that distance. With a World Record, there are no debates about tactics, boycotts, team selection procedures, injury, altitude or the quality of the competition.

World Record means GOAT human ever at that point in recorded history for that event.

Rupp and Simpson

It's great to see Jim Ryun and Deena Kastor getting into this.

https://twitter.com/jimryun/status/1253387824054693889

https://twitter.com/MammothTC/status/1252722994239029248

Ryun took a trip down memory lane and talked about his SI covers one by one. If you go to this twitter account, you'll see all 7 titles talked about.

https://twitter.com/jimryun/status/1253399329861074945

Jim Ryun and Deena Semenya are far from the best. I vote Kara Goucher(female) and Ryan Hall(male).

I am not American but I am of the generation who knew its stars, including many of America's best, as household names. When Ryun burst on the scene in the mid-sixties he was seen as a phenomenon. In two years, from '66-'67, he rewrote the sport and was a legend by the age of 20. He was regarded as the bar for middle distance runners until his feats were finally surpassed in the mid-seventies by Bayi and Walker and then Ovett and Coe.

But outside the US today and a coterie of marathon devotees, the name of Deena Kastor means nothing - as fine a runner as she may be. There really is no comparison; one athlete was an international colossus - however brief his time in the sun - and the other, for all her undoubted national achievements, is only a hometown hero. You can't match the best in the world, as Ryun was in the sport, as he rewrote the record book, with only being the best in your own country, as Kastor has been, however enduring that level of career. Mary Decker was the only other legitimate contender.

rojo wrote:

It's great to see Jim Ryun and Deena Kastor getting into this.

Unfortunately, I can't honestly say that I agree with this sentiment at all. If people are going to have frank discussions about which athlete is greater than another -- and one can certainly question the intellectual foundations and assumptions underlying such discussions -- I don't think it's productive to have some of the subjects of the discussions in the metaphorical room. And it's dispiriting to discover that there have been significant lobbying efforts by interested persons and parties to influence the outcome.

This goofy little competition has gone badly off track. Perhaps it started off badly, with certain decisions about whose actions may have disqualified them from consideration and who was sufficiently American when they accomplished certain things. I was hoping that it might be an entertaining and diverting exercise with good-natured banter about some of the most accomplished athletes in the sport, but having seen too many of these exercises go badly awry, I'll admit that I was dubious from the outset. Oh, well.

Bernard Lagat won 8 medals at world and olympic championships in a U.S. uniform, 4 of them gold, in an era that was far, far more competitive than when ryun and shorter raced. No male even somewhat compares to Lagat.

Rupp, in my mind, is the 2nd best American runner ever, with his silver and bronze in a far more competitive era than shorter/ryun (who never won gold himself), his fast times, his college dominance, etc., and Lagat trashed Rupp almost every time they raced despite being far past his prime..

The poll was silly.

Kastor is superior to Ryun.

also worth noting, Lagat holds 5 ARs despite getting citizenship after his prime in the mile/1500.

The LRC GOAT poll goes home DEVASTATED.

Should've been limited to registered people only. Trump called it; 3 million illegal votes. No proof needed; it's true not matter what!

Shorter and Benoit.

birdbeard wrote:

Bernard Lagat won 8 medals at world and olympic championships in a U.S. uniform, 4 of them gold, in an era that was far, far more competitive than when ryun and shorter raced. No male even somewhat compares to Lagat.

Rupp, in my mind, is the 2nd best American runner ever, with his silver and bronze in a far more competitive era than shorter/ryun (who never won gold himself), his fast times, his college dominance, etc., and Lagat trashed Rupp almost every time they raced despite being far past his prime..

The poll was silly.

Kastor is superior to Ryun.

How many world records did Lagat or any of the others set? There were no world championships in Ryun's era. He had basically one shot - the Olympics. Mexico '68 was a farce for distance runners, clearly favouring those born and bred at altitude.

We should create a US distance running hall of fame.

Armstronglivs wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

Bernard Lagat won 8 medals at world and olympic championships in a U.S. uniform, 4 of them gold, in an era that was far, far more competitive than when ryun and shorter raced. No male even somewhat compares to Lagat.

Rupp, in my mind, is the 2nd best American runner ever, with his silver and bronze in a far more competitive era than shorter/ryun (who never won gold himself), his fast times, his college dominance, etc., and Lagat trashed Rupp almost every time they raced despite being far past his prime..

The poll was silly.

Kastor is superior to Ryun.

How many world records did Lagat or any of the others set? There were no world championships in Ryun's era. He had basically one shot - the Olympics. Mexico '68 was a farce for distance runners, clearly favouring those born and bred at altitude.

Ryun set his WRs in an era when many, many less people (particularly from the African countries that now dominate all those WRs) competed.

I'm also not at all convinced that Ryun would have beaten Keino at sea level. 3:34 is a monstrous time at that altitude. Keino had a great day and trashed Ryun.

birdbeard wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

How many world records did Lagat or any of the others set? There were no world championships in Ryun's era. He had basically one shot - the Olympics. Mexico '68 was a farce for distance runners, clearly favouring those born and bred at altitude.

Ryun set his WRs in an era when many, many less people (particularly from the African countries that now dominate all those WRs) competed.

I'm also not at all convinced that Ryun would have beaten Keino at sea level. 3:34 is a monstrous time at that altitude. Keino had a great day and trashed Ryun.

What?! 3.34.9 is better than 3.33.1? Keino never got near his Mexico time when running at sea-level at any time in his career. If there was ever a candidate for suspected doping at Mexico that had to be it. Not a single other altitude trained or born and bred distance athlete got near that performance at Mexico.

As for the modern era, it wouldn't exist without EPO and every other substance that enables boosted performances. An utterly dirty sport.