Planet Earth watched Jordan.
A cultural phenomenon that transcended basketball.
He was just different level forget the stats.
Planet Earth watched Jordan.
First off advanced metrics are all flawed in one way or another so that can't be your only argument. I'm also not sure what advanced stats you are referring to...
Lebron's playoff PER: 28.3
Lebron's Playoff Win Shares/48 min: .244
Mike's playoff PER: 28.6
Mike's Playoff Win Shares/48 min: .255
Jordan has better stats despite retiring in his prime TWICE
Watching both it is clear that Mike is better
Jordan is the GOAT.
I am sorry, but who are this kobe and bron guys? Never saw them running any distance.
uhhh guys? wrote:
Lebron, great. Kobe, great. Bill Russel, great. Yes, and Larry and Magic. Jordan, definitely greatest among the non-Wilt greats.
But GOAT?? Wilt and only Wilt. Any other suggestion is just saying, "OK, so other than Wilt, who was/is the best?" And then y'all can debate.
Not taking anything away from any other players. It's just that Wilt was on a completely different level as an athlete. I don't mean like LeBron or like MJ.
Wilt had to HOLD HIMSELF BACK in order to hang out and play with the other pros. It's like me at 15 playing against my little brother at 10 ... I couldn't really play all out, right? Or else it wouldn't be much of a game, and my little brother probably wouldn't feel like playing with me again after that, plus there would be a risk that I could hurt him. So, I'd hold myself back so that we could hang out and shoot some hoops. That's Wilt playing in the NBA, any decade, ever.
LeBron is, and Kobe was, amazing. MJ was truly special. Wilt was ... superhuman.
I’m an old guy, big NBA fan, seen em all.
Wilt: truly was superhuman. But he played in an era early 60s through 70s partially absent of the modern day athletic center. Yes I believe he would be great in today’s era also, but he would not dominate like he did playing against centers of the 60s. Wilt was 7”1 and athletic as hell. However, imagine him now playing against Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Embiid, Ewing, Andre Drummond, D Howard etc. Everyone is 7ft, athletic and strong
Larry: Stop it
LeBron: If you say LeBron, you have an argument. But LeBron just doesn’t have the mental shrewdness of MJ. Also on a physical level, MJ was a better defender of the ball and had unreal body control, he would dominate in this era
Magic: Multi dimensional. Lacked one on one breakdown ability. Top 5 player
Kareem: Unstoppable offensive force, good defender. Lacked will to lead any team by himself
MJ> WC, LJ, Magic, Kareem
Jordan, Kobe and LeBron are all great. But, none are the greatest. That would be Bill Russell. Don't you think it's a coincidence that the 3 greatest players of all time just happen to be ones you've seen play?
Im the biggest celtics fan there is but russell has no place in this discussion. One of the all time greats defensively but thats only one half of the game, and the less important half. Take a look at how many HOFers were on those Celtics teams, in an era with a smaller league overall. Phenomenal person and a true icon, but not even a top 5 all time player. There’s really just jordan, lebron, and wilt in this conversation. Lebron v Jordan is a tossup to me; it’s difficult to compare because the expectations for superstars are much different these days, with more emphasis on making teammates better and less on hero ball scoring. I’m still partial to jordan bc lebron has rarely put the effort in to dominate on defense. Wilt deserves to be mentioned but it’s so hard to evaluate someone who was such a physical anomaly for his time (and in fairness for any time). I’d throw prime bird in too just talking offensively but he just didn’t have it as an individual defender
Bill Russell is the GOAT. His teams always champions. High School. College. Pros. No question about it. The man dosn't get enough props.
I'm 60. I've seen Russell play (granted I was a kid). I've seen Wilt.
Russell was a rebounding, shot-blocking freak. He changed each game he played in with his defensive presence. Truly an all-time great.
That was also a series of great Celtic teams. They had Sam Jones, John Havlicek, and were extremely deep. Every year they would have 5-7 guys averaging over 10 pts a game. A a couple more in the 6-10 range.
Yes, Russell was the key to that teams greatness, but they would have been very, very good without him. Wilt never had a team like that (other than the 72 lakers when he was past his prime). Neither did Jordan (in a relative sense. Probably every player on Jordans team was better than most of those Celtics, but compared to their peers they were just a very good team without MJ, and a so-so team without MJ and Pippen).
Wilt had Jerry West and Elgin Baylor and he couldn't dominate against a depleted Knick team in game 7.
Jordan adapted his game after being beat into submission by the Pistons. What has Lebron ever done to make you believe he has the mental strength to match Jordan?
Make no mistake, Lebron is inner circle Hall of Famer, but let's be real. Jordan would own him mentally. Lebron plays psycho on TV. Jordan is a psycho that happened to be the best that ever was
You are correct. A college ring, Oly Gold, NBA title. Over a span of one year.
If we're talking about GOAT we can't leave Allen Iverson out of the conversation.
I would rather have Lebron on my team than Jordan. Lebron 10X better teammate. Only flaw is he is too unselfish. There is no mistake Lebron could have averaged over 40 a game for multiple years if he wanted to. His knowledge of the game and knowing what is happening and what is going to happen during the course of a possession has never been seen before in the NBA.
Jordan was the greatest at taking games over and being unstoppable but Lebron invented the position of quarterback on the basketball floor.
JORDAN HASAY FTW!
Jordan was a racist, Kobe I'm not gonna say anything, and LeBron flops like crazy. They're all incredibly dislikable. Who gives a flying f.
I AGREE wrote:
JORDAN HASAY FTW!
I'm with this guy!!! Jordan ran 2:20 in Chicago, what an absolute beast.
How many players in the "modern" era were athletic enough to block Kareem's skyhook. Walton with an aging KAJ, once that I know of.
Jumping ability? Here's Wilt blocking young Kareem's skyhook twice: "Welcome to the NBA, youngster."
Durability? Wilt averaged 45.8 minutes for his career without the benefits of modern training.
Versatility? The only player ever to lead the NBA in scoring, rebounding, and assists (different years).
I don't know of a better athlete in the NBA.
Any athlete in the NBA now (ever) who could dunk from the free throw line by taking three steps? Jordan didn't even do it running (look at his foot). See the Kansas State coach's comments from 3:00-4:15 on Wilt as a freshman dunking his free throws.