Jordan is the GOAT. Get over it Kobe and LeBron fans!

Pound for pound, there is no question it is Jordan. Lebron is 15% heavier but only 10% better ; )

I grew up watching Jordan, I don't consider him the GOAT. He is one of the greatest EVER, but like I'm the guy who thinks Geb is GOAT over Bekele and when I was watching in the late 80's and all through the 90's, I still think what Larry Bird was able to do was above and beyond Jordan.

Larry Bird is the GOAT

Advanced metrics indicate Lebron has a higher per game value through the playoffs, even when limiting the sample to their 4-5 best seasons. And Coronavirus might be the only obstacle preventing him from being the all time leading scorer, despite being a pass first player.

Kobe, while great, is not up there with MJ and Lebron. Sorry

Wilt. Seriously. Do some reading.

I don’t know how you fools forget Brian Scalabrine and Dwayne Schintzius.

If LeBron stars in space jam 2 we’ll have to revisit this thread

Bill Russell has more rings and played real competition like Wilt and jerry west

Anyone watch basketball anymore? I've watched more curling than that sport in the last 10 yrs.

Agreed. Stupid argument. Not even close.

Quoting flaccid Wilson is weak but amen, this doc will cement it. Until the next generation. Nobody moved like MJ. Nobody ever will. Kobe was somewhat close when he was younger but he was too unfinished. LeBron is a freak at his size but he is not smooth and he is washed as hell painting his hair and hairline.

bloviating wrote:

Quoting flaccid Wilson is weak but amen, this doc will cement it. Until the next generation. Nobody moved like MJ. Nobody ever will. Kobe was somewhat close when he was younger but he was too unfinished. LeBron is a freak at his size but he is not smooth and he is washed as hell painting his hair and hairline.

Kobe 6 for 24 in game 7 Bryant is not even in the same discussion as MJ or Lebron. Remember for at least half of Kobe's career Duncan, who is never in the top 5 discussion was clearly the better player.

Lebron performances in the playoffs in his first two seasons in Cleveland were amazing and put him in the Jordan discussion. In his first year he was half way home against the Warriors Juggernaut with Deladova as the 2nd best player on their team left standing. The win over the Warriors was one of the greatest playoff runs ever. Overall Jordan was a better winner but he had a better supporting cast throughout his career. Lebron had Wade for a couple of years then he started to break down. Then his sidekick was Kyrie who has bombed out and pissed off teammates at every stop. Jordan always had Pippen during their prime and Jackson is one of the best coaches.

I think its close. If you look at stats Lebron is better. But if you put Jordan in today's NBA with the way its officiated now he would be ridiculous. I give the nod to Jordan.

Remember Magic and Bird said pretty early in Jordan's career that he was definitely the best player in the NBA.

The Truth will set you free wrote:

Im sorry you youngins were not around because if you were you would not be making these half assed statements on KB and LJ being the GOAT.

Michael Jordan was an athlete that could be mentioned in the same sentence as Babe Ruth and Ali. Im sorry you youngsters missed out.

Lebron is a point forward.

He can score almost as good as jordan(despite that not being his first objective when playing)

Lebron can drive better and shoot 3's better. Has a better career FG %.

rebound better

assist better

im am not going to compare defense in the 2010s to the 90s its just way too different.

But jordan was a better defender for his time(scottie pippen guarded the best player usually though)

they both are multiple time MVP's jordan has more but that is still an subjective award if we are being honest because they both would have alot more if it was objective.

Only thing people seem to forget when saying 6-6 and 3-9 is that Jordan was always on the better team in the finals and their finals competition was not very good honestly. The bulls were the overwhelming favorite everytime. The cavaliers were not attracting talent when lebron was there the first time so he left to join a team that gave him a chance while still in his prime. Even with that being said he went against the spurs as a kid essentially with a horrible supporting cast. Then the Mavs who swept the defending champion lakers.(he could have won this one possibly but that is the last bad mark against him. Every year after that he played GREAT teams and held his own. OKC with 3 future MVPS, Spurs with 4 hall of famers, Warriors with a 73-9 record then the same team plus KD.

Jordan's best competiton was Stockton and Malone. No one else stood a chance once the bulls had that roster. We just can't act like the pistons and Celtics were not bouncing him out of the playoffs since everyone criticizes lebron for similar things.

MJ has the benefit of being the best player as the NBA really skyrocketed in popularity and global visibility.

If this were running MJ would be Geb, Lebron would be Bekele, and Kareem would be Geb.

Who on earth thinks Kobe was in the ballpark. I do think Magic Johnson was better than Jordan. In the finals Pippen and Jordan had to double team Magic to slow him down (couldn't stop him) . I think LeBron is better than Magic. Jordan is probably 3rd. If Shaq had worked hard he probably would have been the clear #1, but he was lazy.

Kobe is in the ballpark - he might be out in right field, but he's in the ballpark.

When you talk about the all-time greats in basketball, you talk about: Wilt, Russell, Oscar, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shack, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron. James Harden is getting close. I'm probably leaving someone out...

Now it becomes difficult. You can't just go on titles. Some benefit from great teams and great coaches. Russell had the most titles, but he (while truly an all-time great) was on great teams. You can't just talk stats. Wilt had the best stats (it's not even close folks), but he did not have that drive to excel and to win. He was just a physical freak who no one could stop.

Every one else is somewhere in between those two extremes.

Kobe is a bit unique. He had the drive and determination. He benefited from great teams (at times), and he was probably the most skilled great player ever. Compared to the other on this list his skill level was off the charts. What Kobe suffered from was two things 1) lack of physical dominance, and 2) lack of trust in teammates (call it selfishness if you want). That, IMO, keeps him from top consideration. He's in the mid to end of the top pack.

For me, it comes down to Jordan vs. Lebron. Jordan wins the will and determination catagory hands down. Lebron wins the stats, but not by as large a margin. Jordan was a defensive great as well. Lebron is not. I give it to Jordan.

Magic and Bird as close behind. As is Wilt. After that it's pretty difficult to rank.

Jordan, Kobe and LeBron are all great. But, none are the greatest. That would be Bill Russell. Don't you think it's a coincidence that the 3 greatest players of all time just happen to be ones you've seen play?

Lebron, great. Kobe, great. Bill Russel, great. Yes, and Larry and Magic. Jordan, definitely greatest among the non-Wilt greats.

But GOAT?? Wilt and only Wilt. Any other suggestion is just saying, "OK, so other than Wilt, who was/is the best?" And then y'all can debate.

Not taking anything away from any other players. It's just that Wilt was on a completely different level as an athlete. I don't mean like LeBron or like MJ.

Wilt had to HOLD HIMSELF BACK in order to hang out and play with the other pros. It's like me at 15 playing against my little brother at 10 ... I couldn't really play all out, right? Or else it wouldn't be much of a game, and my little brother probably wouldn't feel like playing with me again after that, plus there would be a risk that I could hurt him. So, I'd hold myself back so that we could hang out and shoot some hoops. That's Wilt playing in the NBA, any decade, ever.

LeBron is, and Kobe was, amazing. MJ was truly special. Wilt was ... superhuman.

I'm 60. I've seen Russell play (granted I was a kid). I've seen Wilt.

Russell was a rebounding, shot-blocking freak. He changed each game he played in with his defensive presence. Truly an all-time great.

That was also a series of great Celtic teams. They had Sam Jones, John Havlicek, and were extremely deep. Every year they would have 5-7 guys averaging over 10 pts a game. A a couple more in the 6-10 range.

Yes, Russell was the key to that teams greatness, but they would have been very, very good without him. Wilt never had a team like that (other than the 72 lakers when he was past his prime). Neither did Jordan (in a relative sense. Probably every player on Jordans team was better than most of those Celtics, but compared to their peers they were just a very good team without MJ, and a so-so team without MJ and Pippen).

Michael 24-11 in Finals games.

Lebron 18-33 in Final Games.

I buy that Jordan had better teammates than Lebron in at least 3 -4 or these series, and Lebron's opponents were, on average better, but Lebron did have the better team in some of these series and lost, and the discrepancy in the total wins is even larger than the record.

Although you can't really measure someone's "will to win" Jordan's will to win seemed to translate into game changing performance more emphatically than Lebron's, and to me, that is the difference; and that is giving Lebron every benefit of the doubt that he was as obsessed with winning every game the way Jordan was.