Rupp's 10,000 AR (26:44.36) is underappreciated; pre-2007 performances were almost certainly boosted by EPO

Plus 3 road 10ks, including 26:38 and 26:24 in the most recent two months of running.

Hasn’t the 10,000m also been run much less frequently in the past ~10 years?

and 10,000 on track is always longer than a road 10k

bojoforp wrote:

Plus 3 road 10ks, including 26:38 and 26:24 in the most recent two months of running.

Hmm, I wonder why road times have dropped so much in the last year or two.

Never mind that his coach (while running said 10k record) is now serving a doping suspension.

27 minutes is pretty much the doping line. Any performance under that is highly likely doped. We’ve seen some road performances under that recently. Some think it is the shoes but the real reason is lack of testing in road running.

GORP wrote:

Never mind that his coach (while running said 10k record) is now serving a doping suspension.

^This, and that Rupp himself has been on testosterone medication, and that the IAAF labeled him as likely (blood)doping.

@colorunner123

Somehow you are contradicting yourself with the time spans. You say you are throwing out everything between the mid 1990s through 2006 because EPO was rampant. But then you also make reference to the last 8.5 years. I'm assuming that is where you get the top 10000M times.

I would just point out that I saw Bekele with my own eyes at Hayward field run within 8 seconds of his World Record in early 2008. Strictly speaking that was after this arbitrary span of time you are setting for when EPO was rampant.

So Rupp only microdoped instead of blatantly doped? Nike had it down to a science on beating the tests. Anything he achieved with Shady Alberto is suspect in my view.

a.boon wrote:

and 10,000 on track is always longer than a road 10k

Debatable. the line of running is 30cm in from the rail, about 1 foot. That was a Rupp-certified time trial with his pacers single file in front of him, so he probably ran very little extra, whereas a road 10k has to be measured long in the first place and they still don't run perfect tangents.

The real difficulty on the track at those speeds is the extra energy it takes to get around the turns. It's a lot more significant than most people realize.

Ryan Foreman wrote:

@colorunner123

Somehow you are contradicting yourself with the time spans. You say you are throwing out everything between the mid 1990s through 2006 because EPO was rampant. But then you also make reference to the last 8.5 years. I'm assuming that is where you get the top 10000M times.

I would just point out that I saw Bekele with my own eyes at Hayward field run within 8 seconds of his World Record in early 2008. Strictly speaking that was after this arbitrary span of time you are setting for when EPO was rampant.

Ryan, it was an honest error. I looked at the all-time list and didn't notice Bekele's 2008 performance in Eugene. I have to assume the EPO era lasted all the way through 2008. It is very unlikely that Bekele could run that fast without Epogen. Here is what I should have written:

If we throw out all performances during peak-EPO era between 1995 and 2008, the all-time list looks like this:

26:43.16 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Bruxelles 16.09.2011

26:43.98 Lucas Rotich KEN 16.04.90 2 Bruxelles 16.09.2011

26:44.36 Galen Rupp USA 08.05.86 1 Eugene 30.05.2014

I think 1995 is too generous. It is pretty widely accepted that EPO was being used as early as 1991 by elite athletes.

2008 is probably too generous for "full bore" epo use, as I think it was around 2004 when the idea of micro dosing came to be.

That said, I'm sure micro dosing has been prevalent from ~2004 to present time, and I'm not sure anyone knows for certain how beneficial it is to "full bore" epo doping.

The real issue is simply that everyone switched to the roads and no one runs track 10000s seriously these days. Rupp was the last of the serious time chasers.

Ummm ..Rupp was on epo; why did you start this thread? lol

Rupp is one of the most drug-tested athletes of all time. He's never had a positive test. East Africans dope like crazy at home because drug testers aren't able to make it out there.

I would even go so far as to say he's the only clean athlete on that list.

tin can man wrote:

Rupp is one of the most drug-tested athletes of all time. He's never had a positive test. East Africans dope like crazy at home because drug testers aren't able to make it out there.

I would even go so far as to say he's the only clean athlete on that list.

^... lololol; who’s his coach; what was in the vials kept in the refrigerator in park city ut -2008; don’t be stupid; STFU ... yak yak yak ... go sniff his azc and worship the beta man rupb.

And yet, Rupp was one of the few flagged as likely doping in the 2016 IAAF list, and we know at least since Ashenden's paper that the micro-dosers don't get flagged.

Aside from that, he was on testosterone medication and coached by the banned drug cheat Salazar.

I love the phrase "almost certainly". In math it means it can only not be certain on a set of measure zero. In rhetoric it means "not certainly".

the "likely doping" list that was leaked is worthless. Pretty sure it also lists all 3 ingebritsens, evan jager, sondre moen, and matthew centrowitz as "likely doping". Seems like that was just a super strict bio passport interpretation and doesn't mean anything.

Again- letsrun nation sure has a hard time with this! rupp hasn't ever failed a test. rupp may have been on testosterone which is like caffeine compared to EPO that every eastern African takes. Rupp has two super high level and respected coaches right now- Tim Rowberry and Mike Smith. You think they would be touching rupp with a 10 foot pole if they thought he had doped?

as for the "hiS cOAcH iS bAnNeD FoR dOpInG tHo" - not really. more like breaking anti doping rules- not doping in and of itself. Go read the reports like an adult and not just the front page.

GORP wrote:

Never mind that his coach (while running said 10k record) is now serving a doping suspension.

Falsely accused. Weak evidence. #freealberto