5YearNcaa wrote:
Sometimes it works out better for the athlete if they end up running slower in high school and go to a lower level d1 school. Here is an example:
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This is a really good post that high schoolers should read.
5YearNcaa wrote:
Sometimes it works out better for the athlete if they end up running slower in high school and go to a lower level d1 school. Here is an example:
...
This is a really good post that high schoolers should read.
2cents049^ wrote:
Having competed and coached at the P5 D1 level and the Mid-Major D1 level there exists an over-generalization of each category. There are roughly 65 "Power 5" schools and another roughly 65 "Group of 5" schools. While there is most certainly a difference in athletic program quality among the top P5 schools vs. the bottom G5 schools in terms of financial support, there isn't a huge difference between the bottom P5 schools and the top G5 schools. In fact, in some instances there is better funding in some G5 schools than bottom-tier P5 schools (not that funding is the end-all, be-all, for a quality collegiate athletic experience).
There are another 200 or so D1 programs beyond this 130 that also have support varying quality levels of SA experience. Those schools that emphasize the Olympic sports provide a great level of support for SAs not enjoyed by Track/XC kids at some P5 and G5 schools.
I'm not sure categorizing P5 vs. G5 vs. Other D1 schools is the best way to look at SA experience given the wide variety of support and opportunities unique to each institution.
This si rea
FYI. Winthrop has had seven All-Americans since 2008.
wucoach wrote:
FYI. Winthrop has had seven All-Americans since 2008.
Calling BS on that. Looking at TFFRS its exactly 0
It's not. I ran at one of the most famous D1 XC programs out there, and in retrospect, would have been happier and better off at the D2 schools that were all over me.
I don't think D2 is right for everyone, but D1 likely isn't, either. In fact, I no longer think college is right for most, but I won't go there.
This is Jim Kiler wrote:
It's not. I ran at one of the most famous D1 XC programs out there, and in retrospect, would have been happier and better off at the D2 schools that were all over me.
I don't think D2 is right for everyone, but D1 likely isn't, either. In fact, I no longer think college is right for most, but I won't go there.
Agree with all of this.
Unless colleges go to only 3 years for an undergrad degree, and masters is only 1 year.
If running is paramount for the prospect, attend where one gets to run the most meets.
Please don't assume 'big time' programs have great coaches. The schools rely on 'big time' recruits to keep the coaches in their jobs. ADs might not be fans of job searches to replace coaches.
If academics is important, there are pretty accurate rankings of schools.
Run the best you can, but do well in class.
If the school is not so highly thought of academically, get decent-to-good grades and the degree.
Yep, just looked at recent schedules for the D2 I should have attended. Six meets, then conference championships.
We ran twice, pre-nats and nats. The year we didn't go to nats, we ran once.
I'd still hold a few records, too, from the looks of it, for what that's worth!
genuinely curious wrote:
Only a very select handful of mid-major schools are nationally competitive. They generally aren’t in the same stratosphere as power-5 programs. At the national level they get killed.
So what is it about them that makes the experience better than other levels where there is much greater competitive parity?
Is it just the social (media) validation or getting free shoes or what?
Many non P5 D1s are non flagship public universities. A kid is looking for a public school in his state, let's say Arkansas for example. He's a good runner, but not really P5 material. He could go to University of Arkansas as a last man on walk on, never make the top 7 and be just another face on the team. He would also probably pay more given that there's more competitive academic scholarships and no athletic money at U of A. He instead looks at UA Little Rock, Central Arkansas, or Arkansas State. Here he could make an impact on the team while getting more academic money and possibly some athletic scholarship. His degree would hold about the same amount of weight either place, so he chooses one of the non P5 schools. Makes more sense than paying a lot of money to go to a private D3 or an academically poorly regarded D2 or NAIA.
I was on a low funded midmajor D1. To be honest, we operated more like a D3 team because of it - only a few kids on the roster got small amounts of money, most meets were within 4 hours of campus. We did do 5-6 overnights in a calendar year and some of the top people were able to fly out to bigger meets further away. We didn't get free shoes, although we got a lot of free gear and decently discounted shoes.
While I am sure some of my teammates wanted to say they were a "D1 runner," I think most of us went there simply because we really liked the school (good academics) and program, and just actually wanted to be there. We were always one of the top teams in our conference, all schools with similar profile to us, and were usually in the top 3rd of the region. We all knew we weren't about to go to NCAAs, but we were still able to often beat schools that were 3 or 4 times our size, go to a lot of big meets, and so many of us ended up having really good careers. We actually raced full schedules too, not just 1-2 meets a season like you see with lower level kids at a lot of places. If the school had decided they wanted to reclassify as D3 and join another conference, I don't think anyone would have cared and transferred out because of it.
Better educational opportunities at most mid-major D1s than at D2 and far better competitive opportunities and coaching at mid-major D1s than at D3, generally speaking.
Ex-D1 G5 wrote:
Better educational opportunities at most mid-major D1s than at D2 and far better competitive opportunities and coaching at mid-major D1s than at D3, generally speaking.
Erroneous on both counts (educational opportunities/coaching). True for competitive opportunities.
Much better academically than D2 and most likely better than D3.
Genuinely Curious as well wrote:
Ex-D1 G5 wrote:
Better educational opportunities at most mid-major D1s than at D2 and far better competitive opportunities and coaching at mid-major D1s than at D3, generally speaking.
Erroneous on both counts (educational opportunities/coaching). True for competitive opportunities.
No, you're wrong. The majority of D1 schools offer better academics (higher rigor, higher variety of fields of study) than the majority of D2 schools. There are a handful of standout D2 institutions in terms of academics, like CO Mines, but they are the exception. The better pay grade alone attracts better coaching to D1 over D2. Again, you'll see exceptions to that like Vigil at Adams State back in the day or Art Siemers at CO Mines. Though Siemers has moved on to CO State.
No, you're wrong. The majority of D1 schools offer better academics (higher rigor, higher variety of fields of study) than the majority of D2 schools. There are a handful of standout D2 institutions in terms of academics, like CO Mines, but they are the exception. The better pay grade alone attracts better coaching to D1 over D2. Again, you'll see exceptions to that like Vigil at Adams State back in the day or Art Siemers at CO Mines. Though Siemers has moved on to CO State.[/quote]
Mid-major D1's are, in the aggregate, the same level academically as D2's. Not much academic difference between the GLIAC or GMAC and the MAC in the midwest. Same with PSAC and America East on the east coast. Plenty of good and not-so-good schools, almost no exceptional places.
You have no idea how the marketplace for coaches works. Nor how actual coaching ability should be evaluated. But that's understandable almost no one does.
How about listing the ACTs of the incoming students at 10 of those D2 schools and 10 of those D1 schools for us?
If you're just going to cherry pick and make claims without substantiation, academics at D2 powers like Adams and Western are far below that of even the average WAC or Mountain West school.
Here's a P5 (Univ. of Florida) from this weekend, fully funded. Univ. of Kansas was just as bad -
24:34
25:30
25:57
26:01
26:04
26:10
26:28
Schools no longer accept ACT and SATs, so completely irrelevant.
D2 can spell wrote:
How about listing the ACTs of the incoming students at 10 of those D2 schools and 10 of those D1 schools for us?
What point are you making? University of Florida is one of the top public schools in the country.
You have posted much false information in this thread. Some schools are not requiring the submission of ACTs for next year but you can bet that the smart kids are submitting them and the schools are using them. But that doesn't change the average ACT or SAT for the past few years which is the information that you will see if you research it. I challenge you to provide the information for some D2 schools and some D1 schools. You will find that random D1 schools have ACT scores in the 25-29 range while random D2 schools have average ACT scores in 21-25 range. D2 schools are not good.