Why you keep getting hurt: Your posterior chain is weak.

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Bumps and Bruises wrote:
[quote]colorunner123 wrote:
Coach Brosnan has built a powerhouse program from nothing in just four years. The secret to his runners' success is not high mileage. The top boys are only running about 60 miles per week. No, his secret is keeping his runners healthy. They stretch before every workout and they do some kind of strength work. He specifically mentions that they work on their glutes. Not sure if they do barbell strength training or mainly bodyweight stuff.

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If you really love lifting and it is mentally stimulating for you, do it. if it stresses you out to think about doing it on top of your running workouts, don't do it.

A few years ago when Syracuse won the nat'l championship, their coach says he doesn't believe in weightlifting. Core stuff, yes. but no need for lifting. Don't need to get too fancy. planks, crunches, etc. basic stuff.

as far as stretching, good dynamic stretches after a warmup run will do the trick if you are doing enough of them and doing them focus. Static stretch after your running workout.

if you want something really minimal as far as the weights go, you can get a lot out of doing just deadlifts, lunges, and very short, explosive hill sprints. Thats probably 15 minutes for the deads and lunges. and then however long to do the hill sprints. Boom. you are more complete than most. and strong as hell.

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Always someone trying to be a j wrote:

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Bumps and Bruises wrote:
[quote]colorunner123 wrote:
Coach Brosnan has built a powerhouse program from nothing in just four years. The secret to his runners' success is not high mileage. The top boys are only running about 60 miles per week. No, his secret is keeping his runners healthy. They stretch before every workout and they do some kind of strength work. He specifically mentions that they work on their glutes. Not sure if they do barbell strength training or mainly bodyweight stuff.

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In a previous interview about Nico Young, I think the coach said he missed much a cross season and an entire track season because he was hurt. Nico's younger brother (not sure which one) was hurt in the later part of this past season, not allowing him to run state. Jace Aschbrenner was hurt in the first half of their 2018 season and their number 2/3 from 2018 was injured at NXN. They have injuries just like everyone else. Also, Jordan Hassay is a terrible example of staying healthy.[/quote

Not true. But good try.

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Mo's form on squats was sh*t, you can tell he doesn't do them often and was just doing it for the video (with a whopping 90 lbs).

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high school xc coach wrote:
If you really love lifting and it is mentally stimulating for you, do it. if it stresses you out to think about doing it on top of your running workouts, don't do it.

A few years ago when Syracuse won the nat'l championship, their coach says he doesn't believe in weightlifting. Core stuff, yes. but no need for lifting. Don't need to get too fancy. planks, crunches, etc. basic stuff.

as far as stretching, good dynamic stretches after a warmup run will do the trick if you are doing enough of them and doing them focus. Static stretch after your running workout.

if you want something really minimal as far as the weights go, you can get a lot out of doing just deadlifts, lunges, and very short, explosive hill sprints. Thats probably 15 minutes for the deads and lunges. and then however long to do the hill sprints. Boom. you are more complete than most. and strong as hell.

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Sit and kick wrote:
Mo's form on squats was sh*t, you can tell he doesn't do them often and was just doing it for the video (with a whopping 90 lbs).

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Bumps and Bruises wrote:

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Always someone trying to be a j wrote:

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Bumps and Bruises wrote:
[quote]colorunner123 wrote:
Coach Brosnan has built a powerhouse program from nothing in just four years. The secret to his runners' success is not high mileage. The top boys are only running about 60 miles per week. No, his secret is keeping his runners healthy. They stretch before every workout and they do some kind of strength work. He specifically mentions that they work on their glutes. Not sure if they do barbell strength training or mainly bodyweight stuff.

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In a previous interview about Nico Young, I think the coach said he missed much a cross season and an entire track season because he was hurt. Nico's younger brother (not sure which one) was hurt in the later part of this past season, not allowing him to run state. Jace Aschbrenner was hurt in the first half of their 2018 season and their number 2/3 from 2018 was injured at NXN. They have injuries just like everyone else. Also, Jordan Hassay is a terrible example of staying healthy.[/quote

Not true. But good try.

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What isn't true? The specifics of who was hurt and the timelines or that Newbury Park deals with injuries just like everyone else? Please don't turn this into another Brosnan is the greatest vs Brosnan is the worst thread. The point of thread is that lifting and whatever strength programs mentioned are the main reason for success. I was pointing out that Newbury Park and Jordan Hassay deal with injuries, while the OP used them as examples.

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louden Valley and Newbury Park have very detailed strengthening routines. Definitely helps with their success.

They have both spoke about them. I just wish someone had details

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Saturday Long Run? wrote:
I believe the stretching is underrated. It gets bashed a lot these days. Most of the studies look at stretching in relation to injury prevention and their is little correlation. In terms of performance, I’m not so sure. I get the idea that you would want your muscles to be tight or wound in a similar concept to a spring. However, look at gymnasts. Gymnasts are incredibly flexible and all that stretching/flexibility doesn’t seem to hurt their explosiveness at all.

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Weight training and stretching for runners has been prevalent since at least the 80’s. Go look at Coe’s training - heavy squats and tons of core. While helpful, they are not the key differentiator.

Look at mid distance times, which theoretically benefit more from the training noted above. HS 800 record is from the mid 90’s. Mile record from the early 00’s. 3200 relay times have not improved materially.

Biggest differentiator in current training, as evidenced by performances at 2 miles and above, is increased focus on aerobic and threshold training. Current coaches and athletes are universally better educated in that regard. No more hammering intervals 3-4x per week and neglecting base mileage and threshold work.

No. Its not the posterior chain. It's their self image, trying to get their scrawny worn-down asses back in 'shape'. If we ran on 4 legs, the posterior chain would be vital. But when running upright, our posterior chain only involves scrawny type 1 fibers, to stay upright. No need for power lifts.

I have found these to be far more time-efficient and running-specific than any amount of squats or deadlifts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm-XeNYIMGQ
I also do a variant where I "bounce" out of the landing on my midfoot. Also one-legged hops and jumps.

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YMMV wrote:
I have found these to be far more time-efficient and running-specific than any amount of squats or deadlifts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm-XeNYIMGQ
I also do a variant where I "bounce" out of the landing on my midfoot. Also one-legged hops and jumps.

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JahWobble wrote:

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Saturday Long Run? wrote:
I believe the stretching is underrated. It gets bashed a lot these days. Most of the studies look at stretching in relation to injury prevention and their is little correlation. In terms of performance, I’m not so sure. I get the idea that you would want your muscles to be tight or wound in a similar concept to a spring. However, look at gymnasts. Gymnasts are incredibly flexible and all that stretching/flexibility doesn’t seem to hurt their explosiveness at all.

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Gymnasts many times are hypermobile and their flexibility isn't a function of stretching but of genetics. That doesn't detract from your point but gymnasts aren't a good example.

I think the limbs should be able to easily travel through a ROM appropriate for your sport and ROM beyond that is of dubious use and therefore shouldn't be programmed for.

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high school xc coach wrote:
If you really love lifting and it is mentally stimulating for you, do it. if it stresses you out to think about doing it on top of your running workouts, don't do it.

A few years ago when Syracuse won the nat'l championship, their coach says he doesn't believe in weightlifting. Core stuff, yes. but no need for lifting. Don't need to get too fancy. planks, crunches, etc. basic stuff.

as far as stretching, good dynamic stretches after a warmup run will do the trick if you are doing enough of them and doing them focus. Static stretch after your running workout.

if you want something really minimal as far as the weights go, you can get a lot out of doing just deadlifts, lunges, and very short, explosive hill sprints. Thats probably 15 minutes for the deads and lunges. and then however long to do the hill sprints. Boom. you are more complete than most. and strong as hell.

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I tend to agree strength training is good. Just don't go to extremes. I've been a gym rat and I've been a runner, and the best strategy I've found for strength training as a supplement to running is to do it in small, frequent doses rather than big, dedicated sessions. Ie rather than 2-3x45min sessions per week, I like to do 10-20min each day depending on how much time I've got. Finishing a run and doing 10-20min of planks, pullups, pushups, kettlebell swings, light deadlifts, and step-ups has transformed my running when I've been able to do it consistently.

Old guy here. Monster walk and side steps with bands really work well for me. A lot of the things mentioned above are great but for old guys with creaky backs, etc. these two exercises are good for glutes and hips.

what are peoples thoughts on Jay Jonshon's Myrtle routine.

I start use squat toilet, used less advanced country and it do good running form overall injury prevent. I recommend By squat over hole on floor multiple time as way to go, poo do not touch heel or back of leg (as it do during direct stand up)and able use “posterior chain” practice which utmost important. in USA advanced country out of shape person sit toilet common, allow gravity over psoas stay tense titled pelvis while sphincter relax let poop go in. This not helpful exercise except disabled person late life