Isaiah Harris time trialed 5000m....

Shot put?

Harris should be training like Donovan Brazier and doing speed. He's wasting time on all this aerobic stuff, he's too big and too inefficient to be a 1500m guy.

tin can man wrote:

Harris should be training like Donovan Brazier and doing speed. He's wasting time on all this aerobic stuff, he's too big and too inefficient to be a 1500m guy.

There aren't any races for at least the next three months. Doing this big base work allows him to handle more volume of intense work later on. Doing all fast stuff now doesn't allow you any room to grow later this summer or next year. The fast stuff is what makes you sharp right now, but there's no sense in being sharp right now.

Speed comes quick wrote:

tin can man wrote:

Harris should be training like Donovan Brazier and doing speed. He's wasting time on all this aerobic stuff, he's too big and too inefficient to be a 1500m guy.

There aren't any races for at least the next three months. Doing this big base work allows him to handle more volume of intense work later on. Doing all fast stuff now doesn't allow you any room to grow later this summer or next year. The fast stuff is what makes you sharp right now, but there's no sense in being sharp right now.

Many 800m men & women have moved away from those Lydiard training philosophies. There is a reason many 800m runners with sub-47 400m personal best get a college XC exemption. No need to list the sub-47 400m 800m men who participate in college XC. It's a very small limited number of guys. Brazier got a XC exemption at Texas A&M.

Speed comes quick wrote:

tin can man wrote:

Harris should be training like Donovan Brazier and doing speed. He's wasting time on all this aerobic stuff, he's too big and too inefficient to be a 1500m guy.

There aren't any races for at least the next three months. Doing this big base work allows him to handle more volume of intense work later on. Doing all fast stuff now doesn't allow you any room to grow later this summer or next year. The fast stuff is what makes you sharp right now, but there's no sense in being sharp right now.

It doesn't matter if he has the biggest "base" if he can't run 44 or faster in the 400. He has to face Korir, Saruni, Amos, Brazier, McBride, Rudisha, and many others that have crazy sprint speed.

He ran 21.82 in high school in the 200m. I guarantee you he can't run that now even in the peak of his racing season...and that's bad.

tin can man wrote:

He ran 21.82 in high school in the 200m. I guarantee you he can't run that now even in the peak of his racing season...and that's bad.

Well if you guarantee it, it must be true.

I am curious how many 800 m runners were capable of breaking 44 in the 400 m. Only Alberto Juantarena comes to mind--because he was one of the rare 800/400 Olympians. People tend to specialize more so even the 800/1500 m double is not as common as it used to be.

I like this. He will see dividends from working his aerobic system on overdistance training during this long hiatus from competition, just as Brazier and Symmonds did. Symmonds, in fact, would do 5M tempos at maybe 25-26. Harris has needed an additional training stimulus to move to the next level in the 800m. He is a great talent.

Kev2 wrote:

I am curious how many 800 m runners were capable of breaking 44 in the 400 m. Only Alberto Juantarena comes to mind--because he was one of the rare 800/400 Olympians. People tend to specialize more so even the 800/1500 m double is not as common as it used to be.

Probably none (Juantarena got close). Emmanuel Korir is the next candidate as he's run 44.2 himself. It is rare to find a guy who could break 44 and would be as good/better in the 800. Korir is that guy, but he's battled injuries and had some difficulty running in packs.

zxcvzcxv wrote:

I like this. He will see dividends from working his aerobic system on overdistance training during this long hiatus from competition, just as Brazier and Symmonds did. Symmonds, in fact, would do 5M tempos at maybe 25-26. Harris has needed an additional training stimulus to move to the next level in the 800m. He is a great talent.

Endurance work is fine here and there, but if you actually look at his strava he's doing 12 mile long runs. You can't keep your 21.82 speed in the 200 while running 12 miles once a week.

He competed in the world championships in the 800 in 2017. In order to get to that next level (make and be competitive in the final), he needs to be able to go out in 48/49 with Brazier and the other guys. If he tries to pace it like Wottle they are never coming back to him.

Asking which 800m runners can break 44 is idiotic. That is super elite territory for 400m, requiring 20 flat 200 speed.

45 flat is super fast, only two faster 800m runners ever, one Olympic gold at 400m.

45 seconds for 400 for an 800m is serious sprinting speed, hell 46 is damn fast too.

Many Olympic 800m finalists can only run 47. out of blocks.

600yd/600m man wrote:

Speed comes quick wrote:

There aren't any races for at least the next three months. Doing this big base work allows him to handle more volume of intense work later on. Doing all fast stuff now doesn't allow you any room to grow later this summer or next year. The fast stuff is what makes you sharp right now, but there's no sense in being sharp right now.

Many 800m men & women have moved away from those Lydiard training philosophies. There is a reason many 800m runners with sub-47 400m personal best get a college XC exemption. No need to list the sub-47 400m 800m men who participate in college XC. It's a very small limited number of guys. Brazier got a XC exemption at Texas A&M.

This is true, but if one is a Peter Snell type runner, Lydiard training might be the only thing to get one below 145. A young 800 meter runner needs a good coach to determine the direction he or she goes.

Thats just not true. He split sub 47 on the 4x4 as a Junior in high school and was doing threshold work and longer work every week. LR was 75min then. He only got a little faster really in the 200m realistically his senior year. He is clearly a lot faster now and could destroy all his times when peaking which is when it matters. Strength equals speed my friend. I mean he has no races for awhile why not go for a 5k PB.

citius5000 wrote:

Thats just not true. He split sub 47 on the 4x4 as a Junior in high school and was doing threshold work and longer work every week. LR was 75min then. He only got a little faster really in the 200m realistically his senior year. He is clearly a lot faster now and could destroy all his times when peaking which is when it matters. Strength equals speed my friend. I mean he has no races for awhile why not go for a 5k PB.

He split 46.9 in high school. He won state championships in the 200, 400, and 800. He's an ELITE talent. It doesn't matter what he did in training for high school because he's talented enough to run fast times off of mediocre training.

Strength does not equal speed in the 800. The reason Brazier can close a 1:44 800 indoors in 24 seconds is because he's FAST.

His running mechanics are atrocious, they were better in high school. He'd be better served working on his sprint speed and his sprint form right now.

trump card move wrote:

Asking which 800m runners can break 44 is idiotic. That is super elite territory for 400m, requiring 20 flat 200 speed.

45 flat is super fast, only two faster 800m runners ever, one Olympic gold at 400m.

45 seconds for 400 for an 800m is serious sprinting speed, hell 46 is damn fast too.

Many Olympic 800m finalists can only run 47. out of blocks.

I said run 44 or faster. And it's not insane as most of his competition can run sub 45. Korir has split 43. Brazier can certainly split 43. McBride has split 44. Saruni has run 45 open. Rudisha and Amos have incredible speed as well. Devin Dixon has split 44.12 as a senior in college and has also run 1:44.

46 and in fact 45 are not impressive when in Zurich Amos is splitting 48.4 in his first 400 and Korir is 48.8.

Im 100% aware of what he did in high school, college and now. Now your changing subjects here. First its the training he is doing that’s potentially affecting his speed and now he is so talented that it does matter what he does? I’m confused now? Which is it?

tin can man wrote:

trump card move wrote:

Asking which 800m runners can break 44 is idiotic. That is super elite territory for 400m, requiring 20 flat 200 speed.

45 flat is super fast, only two faster 800m runners ever, one Olympic gold at 400m.

45 seconds for 400 for an 800m is serious sprinting speed, hell 46 is damn fast too.

Many Olympic 800m finalists can only run 47. out of blocks.

I said run 44 or faster. And it's not insane as most of his competition can run sub 45. Korir has split 43. Brazier can certainly split 43. McBride has split 44. Saruni has run 45 open. Rudisha and Amos have incredible speed as well. Devin Dixon has split 44.12 as a senior in college and has also run 1:44.

46 and in fact 45 are not impressive when in Zurich Amos is splitting 48.4 in his first 400 and Korir is 48.8.

Really? Zurich is the race you bring up...how'd that work out for them?

Anyways, this base work is nothing new for Harris. The same year he won the 200, he got second in XC, and won the mile. The guy has an absolutely filthy range, and his speed is fine.

Congrats?

big brain guy wrote:

tin can man wrote:

I said run 44 or faster. And it's not insane as most of his competition can run sub 45. Korir has split 43. Brazier can certainly split 43. McBride has split 44. Saruni has run 45 open. Rudisha and Amos have incredible speed as well. Devin Dixon has split 44.12 as a senior in college and has also run 1:44.

46 and in fact 45 are not impressive when in Zurich Amos is splitting 48.4 in his first 400 and Korir is 48.8.

Really? Zurich is the race you bring up...how'd that work out for them?

Anyways, this base work is nothing new for Harris. The same year he won the 200, he got second in XC, and won the mile. The guy has an absolutely filthy range, and his speed is fine.

Harris never broke 16 in the 5k in high school. His speed was fine back when he was running 200s. It's not now.

Brazier barely caught Amos in the last 5 meters of the race in Zurich. Vasquez went out in 48.9 at the World Championships with a first 200 of 23.5. By the way, there were 3 Americans in that final. Harris is going to be left at home if he thinks a base is going to get him to the olympics. He needs speed.

All you slow twitch dweebs keep on dreaming that one day you'll be able to break 60 in the 400 if you keep doing tempo runs and 2 hour long runs....