I can run 10 miles at 6:40 pace without much difficulty but I cant break 5 in the mile. My ultimate goal is to run a fast 5k, ( mid 16s) . Should I focus on speed for now before starting to build my base and try to lower my mile time, or just keep beefing up my aerobic capacity.
work on the mile
you need to activate your fast twitch muscle fibers more with fast strides after most easy run days. weightlifting a bit could help too if you can fit that in but the strides will help if you have zero speed or kick right now
ye i am kinda slow. i think my 200 is like 30 flat and my 400 is like 64 or 65. so should i train for the mile right now?
sman wrote:
I can run 10 miles at 6:40 pace without much difficulty but I cant break 5 in the mile. My ultimate goal is to run a fast 5k, ( mid 16s) . Should I focus on speed for now before starting to build my base and try to lower my mile time, or just keep beefing up my aerobic capacity.
Focus on speed.
10 at 6:40 as an easy run? If you struggle to run 10 in 6:40, you do not show aerobic ability for sub-5.
probably 6:10 or so for sub-5. You can get there with speed and limited endurance, otherwise.
Absolutely developing your speed first makes sense for these kinds of races. Maybe even focus on the 800 for a season or two.
slowpi wrote:
sman wrote:
I can run 10 miles at 6:40 pace without much difficulty but I cant break 5 in the mile. My ultimate goal is to run a fast 5k, ( mid 16s) . Should I focus on speed for now before starting to build my base and try to lower my mile time, or just keep beefing up my aerobic capacity.
Focus on speed.
10 at 6:40 as an easy run? If you struggle to run 10 in 6:40, you do not show aerobic ability for sub-5.
probably 6:10 or so for sub-5. You can get there with speed and limited endurance, otherwise.
Absolutely developing your speed first makes sense for these kinds of races. Maybe even focus on the 800 for a season or two.
He has neither the aerobic abilities, nor the speed for a 5 min mile. A 5 min mile requires something like a 60-61s 400m and the ability to time-trial a 10 miler in 6 min pace. The goal of a mid 16 5k seems unrealistic.
Taylor Ewert did a 12 mile long run in sub 6 pace recently, and has a mile PR of 4:48. Her 400m speed is probably around 59-60.
Yes, there are people who can run a sub 5 mile without being able to do the 10 miler in sub 6. But they are WAY faster than OPs 65s 400m speed, probably around 58s at least and have an even better 800m than the mile.
when i broke 5 in the mile my fastest 400 during workouts was like 70 lol. i never actually raced a 400 though i'm a marathoner
datrippeleffect wrote:
when i broke 5 in the mile my fastest 400 during workouts was like 70 lol. i never actually raced a 400 though i'm a marathoner
Extreme deviations in both directions are possible. You were probably primarily slow-twitch muscle fiber wise. But the thing is - you wouldn't have felt a 10 miler in 6:40 pace worth mentioning when you broke the sub 5, your 10 mile at that time with the low 400m speed was probably significantly faster.
I can run 10 miles at 6:40 pace without all out effort and barely break 6 minutes on mile repeats
then how would you suggest I train to run a fast 5k? work on speed or keep building endurance. I started running about a year ago and had a 7:30 mile to start. My pr in the 5k was 18:36 in xc, but im pretty sure I could run 17:45 ish rn. I would like to run sub 17 atleast in xc next year.
If you’ve only been running for a year you’re going to keep improving doing just about anything that doesn’t get you injured.
I ran 4:46 and I think the fastest I could do a 10-miler in would be like 6:30 pace. I don't know what y'all are talking about, you don't need to be able to do 10 miles in 60 minutes to run sub 5.
smh my head wrote:
I ran 4:46 and I think the fastest I could do a 10-miler in would be like 6:30 pace. I don't know what y'all are talking about, you don't need to be able to do 10 miles in 60 minutes to run sub 5.
yeah this is completely absurd lol.
smh my head wrote:
I ran 4:46 and I think the fastest I could do a 10-miler in would be like 6:30 pace. I don't know what y'all are talking about, you don't need to be able to do 10 miles in 60 minutes to run sub 5.
Did you have 64-65s 400m speed like OP? Then respect. There are different ways to a sub 5 mile, from speed side or endurance side and it seems you came from the speed side. I still doubt that a 64/65 400m guy without the endurance to do a 10 miler faster than in 6:30 pace can run a sub 5 mile.
Ive run 10 1/2 mis for hour run, but haven't cracked 5. I think I could've by just running the track work with a group over in Marin twice weekly. People there seem to bring down there shorter race times by hitting the Track in group 220 and 440yd workouts. (Getting used to faster pace, shorter rests.)
sman wrote:
I can run 10 miles at 6:40 pace without much difficulty but I cant break 5 in the mile. My ultimate goal is to run a fast 5k, ( mid 16s) . Should I focus on speed for now before starting to build my base and try to lower my mile time, or just keep beefing up my aerobic capacity.
Focus on speed "for now"? No, always focus on speed AND strength. You only run a 10 miler at 6:40 pace, you are lacking in strength as well. To be fair, it's hard to know anything about you with just these two bits of information. You aren't anywhere near a 16:30 5k currently so you need time to develop. Enjoy the process!
You're in base phase for an XC season that's 6 months away where you hope to go 16:30-16:45, which would be a big jump. What that means for you right now is that you've got some time to build steadily, both aerobically and your high-end speed.
What does that look like? There are three components.
1) Gradually increase your mileage. Usually a 40 mpw week guy? Spend 2-3 weeks getting up to 50 and then hold there for a bit before seeing if you can do 55. (Take a week where you drop mileage 20-30% at lest once every 4 weeks, if not once every 3 since you're building.) Usually a 55 mpw guy? See if you can build to 65 and then 70. This (taking your peak volume up a notch or two from its previous peak) should be the primary focus of your next 8-10 weeks.
2) Maintain and build on your strength (which is your strength). Do a run of at least 90 minutes at least every other week. If you're feeling good, pick up the pace the final 30 minutes, or work hard on the uphills (finding an uphill of 1-2 miles and running steadily hard up that a couple times a week is a good idea, too). Integrate 1-2 of these types of workouts every week while building your mileage, and once you're comfortable at that new mileage 10-ish weeks downrange switch to more formal workouts once a week--20-30 minutes "comfortably hard" (for you that's probably around 6:10-6:30 pace, depending on the terrain), 3-5 x 3-5 minutes hard uphill with jog-down recovery, 4 x mile @ 6:10 w/ 75-90s recovery or 8 x k @ 3:50 w/ 60s recovery on the track (slower if on a road or cross-country course, especially if it's hilly). Every 2-3 weeks replace it with something a little faster like 5-6 x 800m @ 2:55-2:50 w/ 400m easy jog recovery (or 6 x 3 minutes at 5k effort with 2 minutes easy jogging recovery if you don't have access to a track or trail with measured quarters) or 10-15 x 400m @ 85 cutting down to 81-82 w/ no more than equal recovery. These "little faster" workouts shouldn't be too taxing, and if they are, slow them down by a few seconds and/or don't push it on the number of reps.
3) Take this time to do some foundational work to address your weakness, which is speed. While building your mileage, integrate a 10-minute drill and strides routine before every run (2-3 sets of 15-20m each of A skips, B skips, C skips, and toe flicks--if you don't know what these are, Google them and 3-6 x 80-100m strides of 40-50m accelerate, 20-30m maintain, 20-30m deccelerate). Once you've done 2-3 weeks of these, you can add a speed development day per week to your schedule (running 4-6 x 8-12 second hills or 50m flat rolling start all-out flat with 4-5 minutes easy jogging recovery in between). You can keep all of this (the every day drills, the almost every day strides, and the weekly speed development) as a part of your schedule throughout this entire base phase. You can also add something like an in-and-out mile (run the straights hard, jog the curves easy) or 4 x 200m at 800m effort w/ 200m easy jog recovery at the end of a tempo or hill workout every week once you get to that phase.
Also, if you don't have a good lifting and core routine, now (at the beginning of this training cycle) is the time to find one. A couple 20-30 minute lifts on top of 5-6 days a week of core will go a long way toward making you injury-resistant as you try to do new things in your training. If you don't have access to a gym right now, you can do a lot with body-weight (push-ups, dips, pull-ups, planks, crunches, etc).
This training, done right, won't get you race sharp, but should maintain and build on your strengths while addressing your weaknesses, and give you a really solid foundation on which to start putting race-specific work when cross country season gets going in the fall. And that's when the fun (and breakthroughs!) should begin.
ok thanks for the plan. are you sure about the paces for the wokrouts though? they seem a little slow, like I think I could hit them right now.
So, you can run 10 miles at 6:40 pace and also run a 65 400? I don't see any possible way the you can't break 5 min for the mile. Seriously. Get someone to pace you. 74s steady each lap. Just crank them out.
its been a while since Ive tried to run an all out mile but last time I did I ran a 5;27. I wous guess im in about 5:110-5:15 shape but maybe I should just go run one.