COVID - Sweden not locking down

still here? wrote:Looks like Sweden is performing better than most

According to the measure I've illustrated, it is doing better than most western European countries (except Netherlands, Belgium and UK, which were each slower to get to 100 cases per million), but worse than most eastern European countries.

It's on track as about average for Europe. *Not* "better than most.

Sad, Frustrated Coach wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

I know a cop who came home feeling crappy. He called in to get tested. They said no test until he has a fever. He went back to work the next day. If he ends up being positive, he may infect dozens who then go home and infect hundreds. So, all Sweden shows is that you are screwed if you do not test early and often.

How would he infect dozens? What is he doing to transfer/spread the virus as a police officer while doing his job that is any different from the police officers that don't have the virus, or don't know they have the virus, yet are all trying to be overly cautious?

Still waiting on a reply

Sad, Frustrated Coach wrote:

Sad, Frustrated Coach wrote:

How would he infect dozens? What is he doing to transfer/spread the virus as a police officer while doing his job that is any different from the police officers that don't have the virus, or don't know they have the virus, yet are all trying to be overly cautious?

Still waiting on a reply

He has to serve a lot of warrants and respond to traffic accidents. He is face to face with people all day. A couple times a week, he has an arrest that gets physical. And he is a trainer and always has a new cop with him. They were not wearing masks up until just the other day when they finally got a big shipment of masks to wear. Now they are required to wear mass. They have always been required to wear glove when making an arrest, but that is for their protection. They do not have a box of gloves to switch out each time they make an arrest. So, if he scratches his nose or wipes sweat off his forehead, those gloves are contaminated and can spread the virus. And then he is always coming in and out of the county lock up and his precinct. Tons of opportunities to spread the virus.

He is feeling better but there have been 4 positives in the city police force and positives in the city are about to push over 1,000.

Meanwhile, Sweden is seeing its positives growing. It will be a big test the next two to three weeks to seek how things go in Sweden. Their positives have doubled over the past week. The rate of new positives is in the 300 to 400 range per day. If that increases and continues unabated for the next week, then Sweden's experiment will not look like a good model for anyone to follow.

interested reader wrote:

still here? wrote:Looks like Sweden is performing better than most

According to the measure I've illustrated, it is doing better than most western European countries (except Netherlands, Belgium and UK, which were each slower to get to 100 cases per million), but worse than most eastern European countries.

It's on track as about average for Europe. *Not* "better than most.

Dude, there are only 3 lines on your chart lower than Sweden - Singapore, SK and HK

Meaning Sweden is doing better than most. If you say it’s worse than other Eastern European countries then put that on the graph. But the graph right now says Sweden is 4th best.

So... how would he be doing things differently if he wasn't infected?

This would not work in the US where people don’t give an F:

“Sweden’s approach appeals to the public’s self-restraint and sense of responsibility, Tegnell said.”

CoronaCurious wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

Sweden, Germany and S Korea have avoided lockdowns because they were testing vigorously very early on. That allowed them to quarantine positives who were asymptotic

Ha ha ha - They were testing asymptomatics "very early on"? That is absolutely brilliant! Please do tell us more about how exactly they were doing that...

Good catch. You can really see those who just want to repeat company lines! Same people who would have been right on board with the boogeyman of Communism in Southeast Asia. Yeah the Vietnam War was a good use of resources!

There's countless examples how people just act completely illogical towards reality. Why don't we face up to it and use this as a rallying call to all learn science and evidence based reasoning as The Guiding principles for human life

There is zero evidence that you can stop a respiratory infection that's transmitted via the air. Everyone will be exposed to it

Yeah you can argue that you want to slow the spread to keep the Healthcare System working properly

But that is better done by isolating vulnerable people and letting them self quarantine then trying to quarantine everyone

Bump for a reply.

Sad, Frustrated Coach wrote:

I am Sam wrote:

Exactly.

They are doing little testing compared to Australia, Italy, Germany , Norway, NY, Washington and even USA as a whole.

They are finding 102 per thousand tests (yes they may be selective) and that suggests a 5 times higher rate.

They have 110 deaths which suggests that the infections may be 5 to 8 times higher.

Short answer, they are not measuring enough/under reporting.

but isn't the death rate the ultimate concern?

If you assume most everyone is eventually going to get it, then no, the death rate is not the important concern; the important concern is the healthcare personnel infection rates and the ICU utilization rates.

Have you really never seen the "flatten the curve" meme that has been making the rounds for weeks, really months, now?

Sad, Frustrated Coach wrote:

Sad, Frustrated Coach wrote:

So... how would he be doing things differently if he wasn't infected?

Bump for a reply.

Your question seems pointless.

Perhaps a more sensible question would be, how would he be doing things differently if he were tested and the test revealed he was positive?

One might speculate that a likely answer would be that he would be taking sick leave, and not out infecting colleagues and others.

Wuhan-398 wrote:

Germany is at 6 per million, although rumors are their numbers are being suppressed by trying to list any other condition than the virus as the cause of death.

Rumored to be practicing medicine properly? How dare they.

If you're infected with sars-cov2, and you die of a heart attack without symptoms of COVID-19, then you did not die of COVID-19, you had a heart attack.

If you have severe COVID-19 symptoms and you get hit by a car and killed, you died of acute trauma, not COVID-19.

Italy has already shown the massive extent to which COVID-19 is named the cause of death, when in 99% of cases there are other morbid factors present. Do you suppose they send each to the coroner to establish exactly which factor was responsible for the death? It is irresponsible to claim someone died of something without knowing it for a fact.

2,600 ???

The reason why Sweden can avoid having an official lockdown and still have less cases than the USA. No stupid spring breakers or truthers out there spreading disease.

Asymptomatics were tested based on exposure to infected patients.

Sars has effectively been stopped in Hong Kong, Taiwan without any lockdown or even social distancing. The key is, everyone uses masks when they're outside, to avoid infecting others, and avoid getting infected. It's unbelievable that even at the inflated price of ten dollars a mask, it would only cost 3.2 billion to get one to everyone - magnitudes cheaper than a 2 trillion dollar bill.

Season cancelled

Not really carrying on

voiceofreason wrote:

If you assume most everyone is eventually going to get it, then no, the death rate is not the important concern; the important concern is the healthcare personnel infection rates and the ICU utilization rates.

Have you really never seen the "flatten the curve" meme that has been making the rounds for weeks, really months, now?

If the death rate is not the most important thing then why the cry for more ventilators and more PPE? I struggle to find any reason in your statement, sorry.

voiceofreason wrote:

Sad, Frustrated Coach wrote:

Bump for a reply.

Your question seems pointless.

Perhaps a more sensible question would be, how would he be doing things differently if he were tested and the test revealed he was positive?

One might speculate that a likely answer would be that he would be taking sick leave, and not out infecting colleagues and others.

So you are saying the police officers and medics who currently don't think they are infected are using different protocol dealing with the public than those that think they may be infected? You probably are thinking that and that may be the reason this whole thing is an issue at all!

jesseriley wrote:

Congratulations for spelling Italy, but it doesn’t sound like you’ve ever left the barn you were born in.

Could we put a truce to the insults, and grammar and spelling policing? I would like to hear more about how we can reduce the spread of this virus and see less childish posts.