Sweden’s maverick approach to covid management

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expert of nothing wrote:As far as sweden is confirmed, their official death reports curve is so noisy, it is difficult to form an opinion. Working on 7 days moving average helps...

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Sweden is showing the whole world that the lockdowns were stupid and foolish. Only people with pre conditions should have been asked to stay at home.

I’m guessing the humps are: “bodies we didn’t want to report, but their loved ones demanded it...”

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Baba Yaga wrote:Sweden is showing the whole world that the lockdowns were stupid and foolish. Only people with pre conditions should have been asked to stay at home.

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interested reader wrote:

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Baba Yaga wrote:Sweden is showing the whole world that the lockdowns were stupid and foolish. Only people with pre conditions should have been asked to stay at home.

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Before anyone gets too cocky, this is how Sweden is doing relative to its neighbours:

https://ibb.co/qNkbNdY

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Baba Yaga wrote:But:

- Their population is free
- Their economy will suffer much less
- The epidemy will go away sooner and probably cause less deaths in the long run since the other will not reach herd immunity

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-Their dead are “free”

-The unnecessary dead haven’t helped their loved ones or the economy

-Baba Yaga is supposedly French, so he’s safe to post about herd immunity in other countries

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interested reader wrote:

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Baba Yaga wrote:But:

- Their population is free
- Their economy will suffer much less
- The epidemy will go away sooner and probably cause less deaths in the long run since the other will not reach herd immunity

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You are speculating in all three cases, and time will tell the true impact and cost in all three cases. History will judge the effectiveness of this experiment, not your particular imagined foresight (nor mine).

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Baba Yaga wrote:The 1) is true right now. They are free to go outside, meet, go to restaurants or cinema. Basic freedom that have been stolen in a lot of countries.

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At least your life hasn’t been stolen in a Swedish nursing home, Baba Yaga.

Can’t remember a worthy nation founded on the principle of DISrespect for their elders...

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interested reader wrote:

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Baba Yaga wrote:The 1) is true right now. They are free to go outside, meet, go to restaurants or cinema. Basic freedom that have been stolen in a lot of countries.

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Basic freedoms, oh cry me a river.

Society has made a choice to pay a price to avoid catastrophic life loss. Society as a whole has decided that the cost is worth the benefit. The fact you disagree and want to bleat about it on a message board is neither here nor there. We're all paying a price to avoid dying or being the threat vector that causes others to die. I agree with that approach, you don't. Suck it up, buttercup.

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I live in Stockholm so I can report first hand.

I was actually a bit supportive of the strategy at the beginning because it felt like a calm, long term approach as compared with a complete shutdown like Italy/Spain.

But now I am seriously questioning the measures.

look at this, for example:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/anger-in-sweden-as-elderly-pay-price-for-coronavirus-strategy

I mean, come on, not even supplying people working at the nursing homes with masks and sanitizers? Imagine being the guy in the article who mom is at the nursing home? Waking up every day wondering if your mom is gonna get it. 1/3rd of the deaths have been at the nursing homes , maybe most would have been prevented just with the simple measure of wearing masks and using hand sanitizers.

I want to also point out that comparing case numbers is useless unless every country is testing the same way and to the same level...and Sweden is barely testing. For example, I have a friend who got all the symptoms (including some breathing difficulties) except the fever, he went to the hospital and they sent him home saying come back when you get fever without even testing him. Though I don't have a proof, I think he had it and got over it (he was OK after few weeks). Another example, if someone at a nursing home dies due to corona, the personnel who have been in contact with that person are still allowed to work as long as they don't show symptoms. Considering that 80% of the population is supposed to be asymptotic, that is like slowly sentencing the whole residents of nursing homes to death.

Also, even though I am not supportive of complete and mandatory shutdown like in Italy, I don't see the need to keep everything open. Who cares about bars/clubs staying open in such a time?

And you know what the sad thing is? Swedes believe they are the most "civilized", "environmental friendly", "liberal" , "scientific" people/country out there. So that is why they find it hard to admit when they make mistakes (the reason why you hear all "this is unfortunate" statements from the government officials instead of "sorry we were wrong").

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Baba Yaga wrote:The cost is not woth the benefit and the cure is worst than the sickness.

We could have gotten better results asking the old the old and high risks people to stay at home. Sweden has showed us the way.

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Most of the old were already in a “home,” where the “Way” was to treat them without precautions, which killed them as well as others who spread the virus to the general population.

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interested reader wrote:

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Baba Yaga wrote:The cost is not woth the benefit and the cure is worst than the sickness.

We could have gotten better results asking the old the old and high risks people to stay at home. Sweden has showed us the way.

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Yes I understand (quite clearly and repeatedly now) that you hold that opinion. Unfortunately for you, society as a whole doesn't give a carp what you think, and instead is intent on reducing life loss, regardless of the unintended harm to your fragile sensibilities.

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Baba Yaga wrote:You have successfully scared enough people for the moment for them to more or less accept these lockdowns. But it won't work indefinitely. Ultimately people will have enough and will stop buying your stupid and destructive "temporary solutions" that harm everyone.

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ethiopian wrote:
I live in Stockholm so I can report first hand.

I was actually a bit supportive of the strategy at the beginning because it felt like a calm, long term approach as compared with a complete shutdown like Italy/Spain.

But now I am seriously questioning the measures.

look at this, for example:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/anger-in-sweden-as-elderly-pay-price-for-coronavirus-strategy

I mean, come on, not even supplying people working at the nursing homes with masks and sanitizers? Imagine being the guy in the article who mom is at the nursing home? Waking up every day wondering if your mom is gonna get it. 1/3rd of the deaths have been at the nursing homes , maybe most would have been prevented just with the simple measure of wearing masks and using hand sanitizers.

I want to also point out that comparing case numbers is useless unless every country is testing the same way and to the same level...and Sweden is barely testing. For example, I have a friend who got all the symptoms (including some breathing difficulties) except the fever, he went to the hospital and they sent him home saying come back when you get fever without even testing him. Though I don't have a proof, I think he had it and got over it (he was OK after few weeks). Another example, if someone at a nursing home dies due to corona, the personnel who have been in contact with that person are still allowed to work as long as they don't show symptoms. Considering that 80% of the population is supposed to be asymptotic, that is like slowly sentencing the whole residents of nursing homes to death.

Also, even though I am not supportive of complete and mandatory shutdown like in Italy, I don't see the need to keep everything open. Who cares about bars/clubs staying open in such a time?

And you know what the sad thing is? Swedes believe they are the most "civilized", "environmental friendly", "liberal" , "scientific" people/country out there. So that is why they find it hard to admit when they make mistakes (the reason why you hear all "this is unfortunate" statements from the government officials instead of "sorry we were wrong").

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Seems like a lie. We don’t need excessive precautions but we don’t have PPE for workers? Why don’t politicians do their job protecting people who are exposed at work before turning loose millions to infect each other?

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ethiopian wrote:
I live in Stockholm so I can report first hand.

I was actually a bit supportive of the strategy at the beginning because it felt like a calm, long term approach as compared with a complete shutdown like Italy/Spain.

But now I am seriously questioning the measures.

look at this, for example:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/anger-in-sweden-as-elderly-pay-price-for-coronavirus-strategy

I mean, come on, not even supplying people working at the nursing homes with masks and sanitizers? Imagine being the guy in the article who mom is at the nursing home? Waking up every day wondering if your mom is gonna get it. 1/3rd of the deaths have been at the nursing homes , maybe most would have been prevented just with the simple measure of wearing masks and using hand sanitizers.

I want to also point out that comparing case numbers is useless unless every country is testing the same way and to the same level...and Sweden is barely testing. For example, I have a friend who got all the symptoms (including some breathing difficulties) except the fever, he went to the hospital and they sent him home saying come back when you get fever without even testing him. Though I don't have a proof, I think he had it and got over it (he was OK after few weeks). Another example, if someone at a nursing home dies due to corona, the personnel who have been in contact with that person are still allowed to work as long as they don't show symptoms. Considering that 80% of the population is supposed to be asymptotic, that is like slowly sentencing the whole residents of nursing homes to death.

Also, even though I am not supportive of complete and mandatory shutdown like in Italy, I don't see the need to keep everything open. Who cares about bars/clubs staying open in such a time?

And you know what the sad thing is? Swedes believe they are the most "civilized", "environmental friendly", "liberal" , "scientific" people/country out there. So that is why they find it hard to admit when they make mistakes (the reason why you hear all "this is unfortunate" statements from the government officials instead of "sorry we were wrong").

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