New Tinman Interview/Podcast

This is like elementary school level training knowledge.

And Tinman might just be the most arrogant, know-it-all (in his mind) coach ever. Zero charisma.

I watched a few minutes at a few different parts of the video and I'd rather jam a pencil in my ears than continue to listen to him.

Tinman is an average coach, I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with him.

tin can man wrote:

This is like elementary school level training knowledge.

And Tinman might just be the most arrogant, know-it-all (in his mind) coach ever. Zero charisma.

I watched a few minutes at a few different parts of the video and I'd rather jam a pencil in my ears than continue to listen to him.

You are a great example of why this site gets a bad reputation... Your negative attitude sucks. What would ever make you happy ...did you need to read his PhD dissertation..?!

I thought it was a joke first time I saw Tinman explain his philosophy and the so called CV pace.

Hi, Tom! Keep those Club XC titles rolling.

durham wrote:

You are a great example of why this site gets a bad reputation... Your negative attitude sucks. What would ever make you happy ...did you need to read his PhD dissertation..?!

I would be happy to hear Tinman be humble and not talk to everyone like they are idiots and like he is a genius.

If anyone has a hard time understanding why Tinman is unlikable, go to 52 minutes in the video. He TRASHES sprinters for no reason.

He disrespects anyone who doesn't agree with him 100% in training. He disrespects athletes in other events or sports.

Well respected coaches like Wetmore, Mike Smith, etc. etc. and even disgraced coaches like Salazar would NEVER treat anyone like that. But Tinman loves hitting below the belt.

Thank you for this valuable information, I applaud your efforts to spread the Tinman Gospel. Please forgive the ignorant persecution that will manifest among the rest of this thread.

tin can man wrote:

If anyone has a hard time understanding why Tinman is unlikable, go to 52 minutes in the video. He TRASHES sprinters for no reason.

He disrespects anyone who doesn't agree with him 100% in training. He disrespects athletes in other events or sports.

.

Lol what the heck was that. He basically called all sprinters lazy bums who would never train unless they were constantly racing. I mean sure I had *some* teammates like that over the years but there’re plenty of hard-working sprinters. Also why do we race indoors in the Northeast? Cuz it’s cold and every winter sport is indoors? Indoor track was great in my book...

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

tin can man wrote:

If anyone has a hard time understanding why Tinman is unlikable, go to 52 minutes in the video. He TRASHES sprinters for no reason.

He disrespects anyone who doesn't agree with him 100% in training. He disrespects athletes in other events or sports.

.

Lol what the heck was that. He basically called all sprinters lazy bums who would never train unless they were constantly racing. I mean sure I had *some* teammates like that over the years but there’re plenty of hard-working sprinters. Also why do we race indoors in the Northeast? Cuz it’s cold and every winter sport is indoors? Indoor track was great in my book...

Crazy, right? He said most sprint practices are just goofing off.......Sprint coaches are some of the most meticulous coaches out there. Now we know why Drew Hunter's form is bad - Tinman thinks technique work and drills are just screwing around.

Tinman should spend a week with Mouse Holloway over at Florida. Or ask Magness if Leroy Burrell and Carl Lewis are having the Houston sprinters play frisbee at practice.

tin can man wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Lol what the heck was that. He basically called all sprinters lazy bums who would never train unless they were constantly racing. I mean sure I had *some* teammates like that over the years but there’re plenty of hard-working sprinters. Also why do we race indoors in the Northeast? Cuz it’s cold and every winter sport is indoors? Indoor track was great in my book...

Crazy, right? He said most sprint practices are just goofing off.......Sprint coaches are some of the most meticulous coaches out there. Now we know why Drew Hunter's form is bad - Tinman thinks technique work and drills are just screwing around.

Tinman should spend a week with Mouse Holloway over at Florida. Or ask Magness if Leroy Burrell and Carl Lewis are having the Houston sprinters play frisbee at practice.

There IS a mental difference between sprinters and distance runners and how they approach the training. A sprinter wants to run a few really fast reps on the track, take 10 min rest between them and then go home. Maybe jog half a lap as CD. Otherwise they wouldn't feel well, their legs aren't made for this aerobic grinding and they would suffer mentally and physically if their coach gives them a 2 mile CD and they are a 100m sprinter.

Yes, Hunter's form is/was bad - yet he crushed everyone else, including supertalent Grant Fisher himself, in HS races. Same on elite level, lots of runners wanted to qualify to Doha yet it was Hunter who did, despite injury. So whatever Tinman focused on, seemed to work for him. Let Magness prescribe sprints week after week to his XC runners, optimize their form and keep wondering why they don't win. Tinman thinks that training should be kept simple and focus on the MOST important things - aerobic conditioning. Little goes a long way in strength training, form drills, etc. Too many distance runners for example only run 40 mpw, with 1 workout and 3.5h strength + 1.5h drills when they could run 70 mpw, with 2 workouts and 1h strength+drills combined. Who will be faster? It should ADD to the running/training, not take away from it.

Also, not every runner will achieve optimal form, no matter how much they train it. There is a lot of natural talent involved in getting a great form. But every runner can certainly develop an untrained aerobic system and become an aerobic monster (except sprinters). Did Radcliffe had perfect form? No, but she was that "aerobic monster" that Tinman is building with his training.

This guy is classic big fish/small pond. And the pond is very, very small.

And he's not a coach. He writes plans and hangs out with athletes once in a while. That's not coaching, that's certainly not world class athletics coaching.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

A sprinter wants to run a few really fast reps on the track, take 10 min rest between them and then go home.

Bullshit, way too generalizing. Also keep in mind the 400m is a sprint event as well.

Also there are exactly zero tinman athletes which I would consider to be "aerobic monsters" right now. Guys like Hunter, Parsons or Gusman already do better at 3k's than at 5k's, absolutely laughable to draw comparisons with Radcliffe .

Knows Uncle Phil when he sees Uncle Phil wrote:

This guy is classic big fish/small pond. And the pond is very, very small.

And he's not a coach. He writes plans and hangs out with athletes once in a while. That's not coaching, that's certainly not world class athletics coaching.

Not wrong, but that's what makes him so good - he is sticking to the things he is an EXPERT in. Which is writing the training, based on 34243 pages of science that he studied. He analyzed everything training-related in his 40-year long career as coach. He knows exactly which training and intensities to prescribe, to optimally develop the aerobic system and stamina for an athlete with a given fitness level.

There are better coaches when it comes to optimize form, figure out strength training & drills, nutrition, keeping team morale up etc. Even competing on the elite level is still somewhat new territory for him, I'm not sugarcoating the performances of TME in Boston and the marathon trials because they really weren't that great. But overall, he knows how to train runners and prescribe the training for them.

What he can achieve without optimizing form, nutrition, proper strength & conditioning routine, mental preparation, etc is remarkable. Now add decent coaches who got some experience in these areas AND start using Tinman's training philosophy, like the Hunter's, and you get the best HS team in the country - Loudon Valley XC.

so average wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

A sprinter wants to run a few really fast reps on the track, take 10 min rest between them and then go home.

Bullshit, way too generalizing. Also keep in mind the 400m is a sprint event as well.

Also there are exactly zero tinman athletes which I would consider to be "aerobic monsters" right now. Guys like Hunter, Parsons or Gusman already do better at 3k's than at 5k's, absolutely laughable to draw comparisons with Radcliffe .

Reed Fischer, 61 min half. Might have qualified for Tokyo (very small chance, but there was a shot), but fell twice in the trials race in the first 5 mins (but finished anyway, Tinman spirit!). Never ran faster than 2:00 in an 800m (he can probably run 1:57 or something now). If that's not an aerobic monster, I don't know what.

Brogan Austin was the reigning US marathon champ (2:12) and was coached by Tinman to get there, although he did underperform a bit in the trials this year.

Hunter is still very young, and far from his potential in distances above 3k. Also, he struggled with injuries during the last year which set him back a bit.

For sprinters, you are right. Elite sprinters are among the hardest working athletes, they work 20+ hours a week and spend a lot of time in the gym lifting heavy and explosive, which most distance runners don't even think about. But Tinman was more thinking about the average, middle-of-the-pack HS sprinter, who might only do something 3-4 times a week and then spends the weekend out in discos and bars. Trust me, there are a lot of slackers in HS sprinters.

I can see you're infatuated with this dude, but really he's not "so good."

Good coaches consistently put athletes in national teams and the Olympics. Coaching HS is not really high performance, the disparity in talent levels is the deciding factor in performance.

Even if (and it's a big if at this point) Drew ends up being a world beater, that wouldn't make TS a good coach, not when you compare him with the truly world class coaches in the US.

Drew runs like a talented kid that gets some plan on the internet and hooks up with his buddies for some sessions. Hopefully he grows up and gets a good coach that helps him make up for the lack of development he shows.

This Timnam is pretty annoying to listen to, and doesn't say anything really interesting.

Fischer's sub 62 is powered by Vaporflys, everyone knows how good those shoes are by now. If you want to see real aerobic monsters look at Japan, were totally random 28:xx guys are going sub61 nowadays thanks to those shoes.

And yes, if we agree that this is what Tinman meant you might have a point. I'm sure there are rather lazy HS runners as well however..

How come a logistics professional and father of 7 is better at developing aerobic talent then your EXPERT? Last time I checked there is exactly 0 (zero) Tinman athletes who have reached Olympics Qualyfying standard.

Don't get me wrong, he is certainly a very good coach (at high school level) but in terms of pros or being one of the best in the world, there is nothing he has shown so far that would support it. As an amateur, I would definitely be interested in learning about his ideas, as well as about many other coaches.

What rubs many people off is that he seems so sure that his ideas are somewhat unique and better than others, when in reality, both statements are wrong. Unless you compare to some crappy part time coach in your local high school. I think we can give him credit for promoting the "keep the ball rolling" as in not overworking athletes ideas around high school level, but at higher levels he is not really something extraordinary.

The best coaches I have seen are the ones who have the humility to understand that there are many ways to skin the cat and are always open to learning something new.

I would also encourage you to have more humility in your posting, because, in addition to posting about Tinman way in any possible thread, you also seem very sure that your way is the best and that you know the field better than others. Some of your comments where you divide runners by VO2max, saying that pros, have this VO2, 16min 5Kers that VO2, are really laughable. It's good that you are willing to learn about this sport and expand your knowledge, but understand that this is a never ending process and there is no single truth or one best way to train.