Ryan Hall shouldn’t be on the top 20 list over some of those people you listed as on the cusp.
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Ryan Hall shouldn’t be on the top 20 list over some of those people you listed as on the cusp.
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Bob Kennedy over Bob Schul. Really?
Bob Schul has an Olympic gold medal at 5000m.
Bill Dellinger should also be ahead of Bob Kennedy. Dellinger went to three Olympics and has an Olympic bronze at 5000m.
indoorszn wrote:
Get all these old timers outta this thing. Their times can’t touch what the elites do these days.
You wouldn’t be the greatest hitter of all time if you hit well in 1950 but there’s now 50 guys who can hit like that.
Yet none of the new generation can match DiMaggio's 56 game streak of 1941. No one, even Tony Gwynn, can match what that old timer did.
It's not only about times, but how did one fare against those they competed against.
Some stats might help create some criteria.
The American Women for me are clear cut at this point. Let me provide my criteria: 1) Olympic performances are prioritized above all else; 2) I kept this to 1964 to modern day to give a recency bias perspective -
Women
Legendary
Madeline Manning, Joan Benoit, Lynn Jennings, Kim Gallagher
Next Cut
Deena Kastor, Shalane Flanagan, Jenny Simpson, Emma Coburn
Men
Legendary
Frank Shorter, Billy Mills, Matt Centrowitz, Dave Wottle, Bob Schul, Galen Rupp
Next Cut
Jim Ryun, Meb Keflezighi, Leo Manzano, Paul Chelimo, Evan Jager
Third Layer
Bill Dellinger, Brian Diemer, George Young, Earl Jones, Johnny Gray, Rick Wohlhuter, Clayton Murphy, Tom Farrell
This is the nomination phase of the exercise, not the voting. But I knew that most wouldn't be capable of following the rules. And we don't need criteria or there would be no need to go through the contest. Everyone has their own internal set of criteria just like they do in a presidential election. If firm criteria are established, then a computer program could determine the winner.
predictor wrote:
This is the nomination phase of the exercise, not the voting. But I knew that most wouldn't be capable of following the rules. And we don't need criteria or there would be no need to go through the contest. Everyone has their own internal set of criteria just like they do in a presidential election. If firm criteria are established, then a computer program could determine the winner.
Runing SHOULD be objective. But some people put too much emphasis on the accomplishments of older slower runners and some put alot less.
One factor that people aren't talking about is how much easier it was to be a world champion in the 60s and 70s compared to the 2000s or 2010s. Especially when the african countries came in started training properly and caught up to the rest of the world. Running is much more global now and obviously faster. so sure some of these guys were like top ten in the world when they were in highschool or something but there is a reason why we will never see that happen again. I do realize that modern runners benefit from more advanced training and its not fair that older runners did not have that but faster is faster for me.
honestly early distance running reminds me of the nba when there were less teams. or like when we had someone like wilt chamberlain setting all those records simply because the league had not yet drafted the proper talent to match him.
Great list. I'd put Pre a little lower and Mills and Schul a little higher.
Hence the difficulty of "all time" titles.
Your simplifying of the process makes this year's title moot before it is awarded because next year's results are more modern therefore better.
My criterion for my nomination (s)
1. Definition of distance. 800/1500 is not. But, it's not my contest.
2. Medals/Records-times/Body of Work/Who did you beat? Some years are more competitive.
3. Influence/Impact on running community.
I'll stick with my men's order of:
Shorter: clear of all others in my mind.
Rogers
Rupp:. Probably move up when finished.
Women:
Benoit: clear of all others in my mind.
Deena
Jennings
John Wesley Harding wrote:
yawntown wrote:
Ryan Hall shouldn’t be on the top 20 list over some of those people you listed as on the cusp.
Oh yeah, why?
I will say that I think Nick Symmonds might be underrated by the LRC crowd at large, for being such a ridiculous, self-promoting douche.
Because he was never close to being the best in the world, unlike the others you listed. 10th in the Olympics and only twice he was third in marathon majors in his whole career, never better. The other guys have silver and golf medals.
gold*
I will continue to put my plug in. I am excited to get this started. I have already looked up information on a few runners that I was unfamiliar with so the idea already has been a success in my opinion. That is the real point of an exercise like this, to appreciate accomplishments. We all have our own idea of who the best are based on our own criteria. I also recommend against limiting it to 32 because that will inevitably eliminate some valid nominees based on the moderators' preferences.
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I'm here too late to offer the obvious choices, but seeing how deep some of these choices have gone, I will add these that seemed to have been missed:
Mark Croghan - three time Olympian and five time US National Champ in the steeplechase
Mark Nenow - Held the American record in the 10,000 from 1986 to 2001
Jon Sinclair - I mean, if someone had the gall to mention Darrell General...Sinclair was a road whore (meant in a good way) in early 80s all the way to mid 90s.
Hey JWH, Lagat couldn't win an Olympic medal while representing the USA. Brian Diemer won Bronze in one of the most competitive Olympic Steeplechases in history.
AT THESWOOSH wrote:
Hey JWH, Lagat couldn't win an Olympic medal while representing the USA. Brian Diemer won Bronze in one of the most competitive Olympic Steeplechases in history.
Lol he won 4 world championships while representing the USA and has 3 silvers and a bronze to boot.
Seeing as I am pretty late, I want to emphasize 2:
Matthew Centrowitz
Dave Wottle
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
2017 World 800 champ Pierre-Ambroise Bosse banned 1 year for whereabouts failures
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion