Semenya switching to the 200

RunRagged wrote:

International press today reported that Semenya now claims to have a previously-undisclosed secret strength that's sure to give the two-time Olympian gold medalist a leg up in any event:

"I call myself supernatural. I can do anything I want."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/51888911

I swear Semenya is trolling the whole sporting world. Yeah we all knew your secret strength mate, it's between your legs.

I have a feeling people aren't going to be as welcoming of Caster when our favourite female sprinters start losing out.

Armstronglivs wrote:

The issue is not whether Semenya succeeds as a sprinter - unlikely - but what will happen when a genuinely talented sprinter with her condition chooses to compete against women.

This does not seem a hard question. A genuinely talented sprinter with such a condition would totalls dominate and probably reach/beat FloJos world records. After all the testosterone doping of the 70s and 80s simulates something like an intersex hormone status. And we got plenty of 1:54-55 800m women back then as well as very fast sprinters (including those with no ethnic advantage whatsoever). As sprints are probably both more technical and more dependent on better tracks etc. the marks in the sprint events of today are closer to the probably tainted performances in some middle distances but overall there should be a similar advantage for a DSD person.

As for 400m hurdles - I thought this event was also banned for the DSD athletes?

Semenya isn't the one to be concerned about in the 200. Seyni on the other hand has already run a 22.58 at Doha last year only shortly after dropping down from the 400m.

Semenya is a man.

He is chromosomally a man since he has XY chromosomes.

He is anatomically a man since he has testicles (internal).

He identifies as a man in every aspect of his life.

The only time he identifies as a woman is when he steps on the track.

Cheating coward he is, backed by corrupt South African government officials.

He is a disgrace to the legacy of Nelson Mandela.

Business as usual wrote:

3hr-marathoner wrote:

She'd have a better chance in the 5000m.

That is debatable. I think the mile is probably stretching her abilities. Completely wrong body type to be a distance runner. No chance in distance events. She has a better chance in the 200m.

Since she has run pretty equivalent times of 49.6 and 3:59.9 for 400m and 1500m, the question is whether it's easier for a mid-d runner who runs a world-class 400m on strength to move down or the same mid-d runner who runs a world-class 1500m on speed to move up. Distance ability is generally more trainable than sprinting ability and the 5000m is run at a pace more similar to the 1500m than the 200m is to the 400m so I tend to think such a runner would have a better chance at the five. Then again, maybe she has untapped sprinting potential.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Business as usual wrote:

That is debatable. I think the mile is probably stretching her abilities. Completely wrong body type to be a distance runner. No chance in distance events. She has a better chance in the 200m.

Since she has run pretty equivalent times of 49.6 and 3:59.9 for 400m and 1500m, the question is whether it's easier for a mid-d runner who runs a world-class 400m on strength to move down or the same mid-d runner who runs a world-class 1500m on speed to move up. Distance ability is generally more trainable than sprinting ability and the 5000m is run at a pace more similar to the 1500m than the 200m is to the 400m so I tend to think such a runner would have a better chance at the five. Then again, maybe she has untapped sprinting potential.

I think you're probably right; that stamina may be more improvable than basic speed. However, she is too heavy to be a top 5k runner, and I can't see her taking much more off her best 200 time.

RIP Men wrote:

Semenya is a man.

He is chromosomally a man since he has XY chromosomes.

He is anatomically a man since he has testicles (internal).

He identifies as a man in every aspect of his life.

The only time he identifies as a woman is when he steps on the track.

Cheating coward he is, backed by corrupt South African government officials.

He is a disgrace to the legacy of Nelson Mandela.

No, she isn't a man. She is DSD-female.

Armstronglivs wrote:

I think you're probably right; that stamina may be more improvable than basic speed. However, she is too heavy to be a top 5k runner, and I can't see her taking much more off her best 200 time.

I agree. Unless she could have been a sprinter all along and just got stuck in the 800m randomly because she had early success, I doubt there will be much room for improvement in her 200m after she masters blocks and starts. About being too heavily built for the 5000m, it's true but it's also amazing how years of 100 mile weeks can slim down a physique. I tend to think that she'd look a lot more like a 5000m runner if she trained like one.

Armstronglivs wrote:

RIP Men wrote:

Semenya is a man.

He is chromosomally a man since he has XY chromosomes.

He is anatomically a man since he has testicles (internal).

He identifies as a man in every aspect of his life.

The only time he identifies as a woman is when he steps on the track.

Cheating coward he is, backed by corrupt South African government officials.

He is a disgrace to the legacy of Nelson Mandela.

No, she isn't a man. She is DSD-female.

No, He isn't a woman. He is a DSD-male

The IAAF rules on T- levels are directed at female athletes who are DSD, not males who are DSD. Female DSD athletes (which is Semenya) have high testosterone, which is not so with male-DSD individuals.

Corina Virus wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

No, she isn't a man. She is DSD-female.

No, He isn't a woman. He is a DSD-male

If she were DSD-male, as you claim, she would not be subject to the IAAF rules on T-levels in female competition, which only apply to female athletes.

Armstronglivs wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

That person would be required to do testosterone suppression to compete in the sprints. We would then be speculating as to whether she could be competitive at 800.

No, they wouldn't be required to suppress their testosterone. The IAAF rule doesn't apply to the sprints. That's why Semenya is trying to compete in the 200.

The restrictions on Semenya were based on results in races she competed in. She never ran the sprints, so the IAAF couldn't make an argument that she had an unfair advantage in those events. If Semenya was a sprinter she would have to take testosterone suppression for the 100-400.

200Observer wrote:

truth be told once wrote:

...everything that makes you fast, makes you suck at middle and long distance.

I like this line. I wonder if elite 800/1500 meter runners agree. I can only think of 1 other elite 800m runner that switched to the sprints. Ana Guevara.

Actually, that sentence fragment is a double entendre.

And please clean up your language.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

No, they wouldn't be required to suppress their testosterone. The IAAF rule doesn't apply to the sprints. That's why Semenya is trying to compete in the 200.

The restrictions on Semenya were based on results in races she competed in. She never ran the sprints, so the IAAF couldn't make an argument that she had an unfair advantage in those events. If Semenya was a sprinter she would have to take testosterone suppression for the 100-400.

Not correct. Semenya claimed the rules were targeting her but the IAAF position is that the rules applied to those events where any DSD athlete could be shown to have a testosterone advantage. Because of the limitations of the research - which was because the IAAF could find few events in which DSD athletes competed - they were only able to apply the rule to the 800 and 1500 (on the track). If the rules had targeted her she would be ineligible without hormone suppression to compete in any other event, but the rule would then have been struck out by CAS as unfairly discriminatory. Hence she can compete without hormone suppression in events not covered by the rule.

If she had been a sprinter it is unlikely her performances would have furnished adequate data to prove advantage, and it is therefore unlikely to have produced a rule change for the sprints (if you are suggesting that is what would have occurred).

Would Amos run 13:10-20 if he shifted Focus?

Semenya ran the 1500 pretty seriously and 3:59 is much weaker than 1:54. She should have been able to run 3:54 if she was a 800/1500-runner, not a 400/800 person. Could she run 15:10? Probably. sub 15 not so easily, so she would struggle to make a final and be of no relevance in a ~14:30 final.

Jo72 wrote:

Would Amos run 13:10-20 if he shifted Focus?

Semenya ran the 1500 pretty seriously and 3:59 is much weaker than 1:54. She should have been able to run 3:54 if she was a 800/1500-runner, not a 400/800 person. Could she run 15:10? Probably. sub 15 not so easily, so she would struggle to make a final and be of no relevance in a ~14:30 final.

By the same token, Amos couldn't turn himself into a top 200m runner.

semenya could do 23mid.

end of story

We don't know how Semenya trained for the 1500. We do know that she defeated Dom Scott at SA champs at altitude in the 5000. Publicly I don't believe Scott had been injured or sick in that lead up and she has run under 15 and is ranked just outside of top 20 in the world. The new line of Adidas clothing she helped design is also a clear dig at Semenya and DSD female athletes using the tinman logo as a call out to real XX competitors. The fact is that Semenya has no ethics whatsoever and should not be competing. If Semenya had an ethical bone in her body she would give up athletics and transition just like Olympic champion Erik Schinegger. Three athletes have stolen the podium from women. Melissa Bishop should be the Olympic champ and unfortunately Lynsey Sharp should also be an Olympic medalist.