Tinman Elite goes home DEVASTATED

The TME would have had the ladies from the other night right on their heels lol

Why focus on the negative? It was a rough day for MOST of the TME, just move on. Not every race can be a PR/success.

Worth mentioning is Brian Barraza (steeple specialist) who set a whooping 7s PR from 13:38 to 13:31. Imagine him competing in his main event, he will be an even bigger threat there.

cookiemousie wrote:

Title says it all. Just watched Connor Winter and Sydney Gidabuday get lapped in the 5k at BU. And Aaron Templeton DNF?! Big yikes all around.

Looks pretty bad. Although I am huge fans of them. Syd and Connor both in the 1420s. A time that a lot of High School kids could run. Hoping they bounce back

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Why focus on the negative?

Because you hype this group up daily, and it’s fun to watch you make excuses for them.

Don't worry. They'll release some new merch soon.

Templeton was the pacer.

Bump Olympic trials. Tough day for Brogan and Fischer out there. Rough weekend for the boys

As long as they keep the ball rolling after this, they’ll be fine.

Fischer fell twice, hitting his head the second time, blood on his face. Brutal first marathon.

So many excuses.

Moderate mileage and moderate training get moderate results.

But they’re not full time pros! Neither are/were CJ Albertson, Jake Riley, Matt McDonald, Marty Hehir, Steve Jones, and a plethora of legends from the 60s-80s that trained hard and ran high mileage with jobs.

Martians Attacking wrote:

As long as they keep the ball rolling after this, they’ll be fine.

You are forgetting the hype on LRC when Tinman Elite DID perform -

* Hunter qualifying for Doha

* Fischer running a 1:01 half

* Brogan Austin running a crazy fast marathon out of nowhere

* Gusman with big PR 13:21

etc., etc.

The Tinman Elite were on a roll, and "the ball was rolling". This set expectations super high, but no runner in the world can set PR after PR after PR and perform in every single race. Now they did not perform up to what people expected, and hell breaks lose. Aren't runners allowed to have bad races anymore? Are we automatically criticizing the training methods, and not having a bad day? Maybe altitude training (Boulder) isn't as performance-enhancing as everyone thought it would be?

People need to understand that lots of pro runners read these forums, and seeing posts trashing them doesn't help anybody (except their competitors). There recently was a post from Mary Cain about how she got depression from reading LRC threads when she had bad races/underperformed, so to make this a better community please don't bash elite runners because they didn't set the world on fire when they fell down 3 miles into a marathon gaining a big bloody cut on the face and a light concussion or bonked in a 5k after going out with some of the fastest runners in America.

tinman is gonna come crashing down in the next year or so. they're good at marketing but not much else. their runners have improved the expected amount for sub-elite runners focusing on running post collegiately but that's it. Drew Hunter needs to leave and join another group and the rest should probably retire

Found another guy who got rejected by Tinman elite!

It’s not one bad day or one athlete injured. It’s several. These are facts.

I think people are just noting the difference between an idiosyncratic (one-off bad race) and systematic (all have bad races) scenario. In this case they all ran shitty, indicating a something is wrong on the whole.

TME? wrote:

I think people are just noting the difference between an idiosyncratic (one-off bad race) and systematic (all have bad races) scenario. In this case they all ran shitty, indicating a something is wrong on the whole.

Fair point, can't really argue with that. Now to actually move on, how would you explain the performances?

* Murphy's law - all runners just coincidentally had a bad race, and they will show up again in the near future (hoping for that of course)

* Tinman training - maybe it's good for high schoolers and runners to reach a sub-elite status, but moderate workouts and mileage are not enough to perform at the pro level, where others are training significantly harder/more

* Boulder is not a good training location

* Mistakes in other areas, e.g. nutrition or strength & conditioning (TME is a new team, they don't have a nutritionist as far as I know and one strength coach who may or may not be on the same level as other strength coaches)

I think those are all possible (and maybe likely) reasons. I think it is quite possible that maybe it's more mental than anything else. 14:20? I mean that's not indicative of fitness at all - we know they are better than that.

TME? wrote:

I think those are all possible (and maybe likely) reasons. I think it is quite possible that maybe it's more mental than anything else. 14:20? I mean that's not indicative of fitness at all - we know they are better than that.

As I said in another thread, they were trying to hit standards - 13:13.5 for Olympics (Gusman) and 13:25 (Trials) for the others. Therefore, they went out very hard, at a pace that would get them the time they needed. Turned out the pace was too fast for them on that day, and they bonked heavily and had to slow down.

Anyone who has ever gone out a 5k too hard, for example at 3k effort/pace, knows how this feels. The race is a pure battle against the will for the second half and hurts so much more than a normally, even-paced 5k. Lactate levels are above 13 from start to end which hurts a lot when they should be more like 10 with a spike towards the end with a finishing kick.

I like the Tinman crew. It just seems however that they never take that training to the level it needs to be at. Where are the pure speed sessions? Where are the killer anaerobic sessions? Where are the sessions like Seb Coe on Rivelin Valley Road? Seems like everything is at some CV pace.

Please correct me if I am wrong.