Fast race starts: how to neutralize?

500-600 races? I've been running for 16 years and I would be shocked if I had over 300.

You need to learn how to pace. You need to learn how paces feel. You should not go to the lead if you have no business winning.

45 years of running racing...5 years hs college

Run about 15-20 races a year more when in school

Bottom line is that if you can cover the course faster than everyone else, you win. If your opposition is fast starting, fading then sprinting to the finish and still beating you with a perfect even pace then either you're not fast enough or you simply ran within your capabilities. It all depends on how good your opposition are. It may be that if they ran perfect pacing then they themselves would be a lot faster too.

There's definitely some point where if you miss out on running in a group you'll cost yourself time, even by going a bit too deep early on, compared to running solo and having to block the wind yourself. But that's really difficult to judge.

And there's always something of a risk that course congestion forces you to run slower than optimum.

But if all you're asking is "if I run perfectly to even pace at max effort over race distance, will I beat the loons who hare off at the beginning and then slowly die", then for most races over 800m the answer is "yes you will". The trick is getting that max effort pace right from the start, and you can only determine that by really understanding your training, race experience, monitoring data like HR and pace etc.

Thx appreciate feedback

Walk a fine line between going off the line fast with lead pack or picking people off later stages of race. I prefer attacking from 3/4 mark but the problem is not getting trashed by early pace.

wikid pissah wrote:

Is it possible to let the leaders go from the start and catch them at the end?

Yes. I've been in many races where there have been more than 20 people ahead of me off the start (including my GF at least once) but I'd catch up to the lead maybe a mile in, and then win. I just run by feel - most of my races are cross countryish/shorter trail where you aren't thinking splits.

One of the best paced races I've watched was a Footlocker West Regional at Woodward in the '90s, where Jason Balkman ran a very even paced 14:5x. He was around 45th place at the mile.

You just need the confidence to let them go at the start, knowing that you're running the best race you possibly can.

Funnily, all my PBs (apart from marathon) are when I went out hard, felt like it was too hard but held on pretty well and didn't lose much time in the back end.

zzzz wrote:

One of the best paced races I've watched was a Footlocker West Regional at Woodward in the '90s, where Jason Balkman ran a very even paced 14:5x. He was around 45th place at the mile.

...and he won the race.

Which is more effective

Other than whoever gets to finish line first...ok.

Running from the front?

Running from off the lead?

Running from back and kicking to finish?

I know the way to neutralize guys with good kicks is for the strength runners to take it out hard from start?

Other tactics?

wikid pissah wrote:

45 years of running racing...5 years hs college

Run about 15-20 races a year more when in school

So you're telling me after 500 races and 45 years of running you still haven't figured out race strategy and/or pacing.

bojack wrote:

wikid pissah wrote:

45 years of running racing...5 years hs college

Run about 15-20 races a year more when in school

So you're telling me after 500 races and 45 years of running you still haven't figured out race strategy and/or pacing.

THIS hahah.

I am one of those guys who will go out hard for positioning and will kamikaze the race a little to string it out. It worked out for me great at the high school level. I would effectively eliminate the guys who would beat me if it came to a kick. Not in college though hha.

Yes, I ran a ton of races like this...take it out hard and neutralize the kickers.

Got to do tons of mileage.

One problem with this is the guys who attack from 3/4’s to finish.

Look at wetmore’s success at Cu...his teams generally run well into ncaas and at ncaas cause they do so much mileage. They are finishing strong at when everyone else is fading.

If you look at the sports science and ex physiology stuff they say negative splits or even but that does not account for fast starts. What then?

Also, look at sports science stuff on longer distances esp marathon they always say going out too fast at start leads to fading at the end...

All sorts of strategies work too.

Look at yuki kawauchi in Boston that rainy year...took it out hard from start and ran away with it.

But then there was the Kenyan woman’s who’s name I can’t recall who came out of the pack and dusted the field in the last 5 miles.

Then also in shorter races there are the sit and kick types...think the Europeans tend to run this way in 1,500 mile.

wikid pissah wrote:

Which is more effective

Other than whoever gets to finish line first...ok.

Running from the front?

Running from off the lead?

Running from back and kicking to finish?

I know the way to neutralize guys with good kicks is for the strength runners to take it out hard from start?

Other tactics?

There's not one singular answer to this. A lot of it depends on the situation and also what you might be comfortable with.

If you are comfortable with your abilities and knowing your pace and effort, running an even or slight negative split is probably the way to consistently run the fastest times for most distances. But there are mental and physical factors that can also affect you based on where you position yourself within a race.

Let's take two simple and very different cases. The first we'll say is a championship style 1500m race, so small field of like 10-12 people with similar abilities and good quality of racers. If they start quickly in the first 400, you could theoretically stick to your guns and say that you're going to run even splits. But being 40 meters off the back of the pack after one lap is going to be mentally devastating. Add in the fact that there's no one cutting wind for you. This would be a very difficult situation to run in regardless of your confidence in your own pace setting ability.

The second case we'll call a local 5k road race in a big city. 3,000 participants with a huge range of abilities. In this case, you don't have to worry about a lot of the challenges from above. If you start back from the lead group, you'll still have people to draft off of and it will be mentally easier to be running alongside others instead of looking at their backs from way behind. However, you can still run the risk of getting boxed in by little kids/moms with strollers/whatever.

There's not a singular strategy to win every race, unless you have a pair of Vaporfly's, then I think they give you the first place trophy before the race goes off. I don't really know what you're looking for with this question to be honest. You are reducing a complicated question down to a single variable and hoping it applies generally across all races and distances. It just doesn't work that way in reality.

Exactly!!

The solution is to get very fit so that you can start relatively fast and maintain it all the way.

The people that start fast and fade are those that have more basic speed compared to their endurance.

For them, starting slower won't necessarily mean finishing proportionately faster.

Getting boxed in by baby carriages and hobby joggers kids etc sucks...

This whole discussion doesn’t even take into account people not seeding themselves honestly at races and I know this applies more to 5/10 road races...but it’s like a lot of people pay significant money to participate in races and that stuff doesn’t grow in trees...it’s not right when the whole baby carriage crowd puts themselves at front in front of good runners

When I've done this, it's because I've felt out the competition getting to that point, and know that I'm going to win. It's not strategy issue, it's a problem only because you aren't as fit as those guys.

I'm assuming they finish ahead of you because you describe it as a problem you haven't solved.

That's never been a problem at races where you can self-seed. If you should be at the front, just walk up to the start line from the course side. Do a stride out from the start line and walk back to the front of the line when it's time. No need to push up through the crowd from the back.

my first year in college I ran 100 races / events. Indoor, outdoor, nationals, from 60 to 100, to relays, to jumps. It all adds up D 1