As a former runner for this team, I can vouch for the extremely unhealthy environment. Emory has a way of getting overbearing coaches. If you were thinking about coming to Emory to run on their team, please think again.
As a former runner for this team, I can vouch for the extremely unhealthy environment. Emory has a way of getting overbearing coaches. If you were thinking about coming to Emory to run on their team, please think again.
I can certainly understand frustration over being forced to compete/run with a serious injury.
But the list of rules really is commonplace on any team at any level.
What was the culture like before the new coach? Give some examples please. I know this board has an open disdain for D3 schools so tread carefully.
These are not unreasonable expectations for a collegiate track program regardless of division.
Too many equate D3 XC/track with high school participation.
There are running clubs for the less motivated who are more interested in the team-building events/gatherings and bus rides than competing
trainers daily wrote:
These are not unreasonable expectations for a collegiate track program regardless of division.
Too many equate D3 XC/track with high school participation.
There are running clubs for the less motivated who are more interested in the team-building events/gatherings and bus rides than competing
This list of rules seems stupid to me. The clothing rules must have come from Dick Doobey.
I was expecting much worse, but those rules are super tame and largely to be expected. The only ones I found silly were no drinking during the season (I understand why it might be desired, but get real), and the one banning certain colored clothes from practice (who the f cares, though also not some terrible burden on the athletes).
reer wrote:
I was expecting much worse, but those rules are super tame and largely to be expected. The only ones I found silly were no drinking during the season (I understand why it might be desired, but get real), and the one banning certain colored clothes from practice (who the f cares, though also not some terrible burden on the athletes).
Ditto.
While I think the presentation might have been a little different, these are mostly pretty straightforward policies that should apply to any athletes on collegiate varsity teams.
That business about the color of clothing *is* interesting, but I wonder whether it might be a department-wide thing. In any case, agreed: not a terrible burden.
FWIW the no-drinking rule can, in part, be a liability shield for the coaching staff. But I can also add from personal knowledge that at one point--this was decades ago--Emory t&f/xc was very much a drinking culture, and some not-good things happened.
Sound like reasonable expectations to me. What kind of idiot would give alcohol to a recruit? I'm a HS coach, and I'm about to tell my athletes to keep their cellphones away from practice. Lord knows my AD doesn't give a hoot about our record, but I am trying to create a 'serious' culture for my team. Once the people who think the team is just an extension of their social lives have been weeded out, a 'serious' athletic culture can thrive. Emory is one of a small number of top 25 research universities that is D3. They'll have no problem attracting people who want to be scholar-athletes. If you want to be a party-athlete, join a frat or sorority.
I ran D3 for a school much slower than Emory. I agree with all their rules. None are draconian or even hard to follow. Any athlete serious about their performance is doing all these things anyways. My school didn't have rules - the philosophy was you perform how you want and if you want to be a partier frat boy and can run well great, but chances were you'd sink down to the bottom of the team and wouldn't travel to meets.
Now losing 38 athletes in one season is a big red flag. I'd be concerned that things are not right at Emory because of this. Its normal for some athletes to transfer when there is a coaching change, not 38. I can't imagine some serious rules that basically say take track and xc seriously would cause anyone who wasn't just in there for fun to transfer. They had a ton of distance guys and I imagine that plenty of recruits will want to go there. They got good results in xc last fall, so it sounds to me like these 38 may be people who didn't need to be on the team anyways.
anonteen wrote:
https://emorywheel.com/38-cross-country-track-field-members-quit-team-amid-culture-shift/As a former runner for this team, I can vouch for the extremely unhealthy environment. Emory has a way of getting overbearing coaches. If you were thinking about coming to Emory to run on their team, please think again.
What happened to Coach Curtin? Are these problems with the new guy, or is Curtin gone because of this mess?
Well I admit that most of the clothing rules are kinda stupid, (I’m wearing my slides on the bus and whatever color I want to practice lol)
But other than that this isn’t that bad. My below average D3 team already has most of these rules in place. And I’m sure that Emory gets a lot more free clothing than anyone on my team so they should be fine.....
D3 Scrubbb wrote:
Well I admit that most of the clothing rules are kinda stupid, (I’m wearing my slides on the bus and whatever color I want to practice lol)
But other than that this isn’t that bad. My below average D3 team already has most of these rules in place. And I’m sure that Emory gets a lot more free clothing than anyone on my team so they should be fine.....
Ya. My team got no clothing, maybe a t shirt. I remember buying a xc shirt from the bookstore my freshman year because the team didn't even get anything other than a singlet and shorts! The clothing rule was the only one I thought was a little silly, but I can see it for a school that gets hella lot of free clothing. Most people wore meet shirts, generic sports brand shirts, and ocassionally a shirt from a d1 school they were a fan of or something - no one cared. One guy transferred in and wore shirts from his old university for a while, said he liked it but their track program wasn't working out.
I ran for Linh for a short time at Toledo. He was same way. Ruined a program that was a national program. He tried to “buy us” with new gear. Fact was he ruined a great program and left for D3 thinking it would be easy. Toledo is crap now but maybe the new coach can help. He couldn’t get out of Coach Hadsell’s shadow and his crap training and “motivation” killed it. I quit. Sounds really familiar.
hes a loser wrote:
I ran for Linh for a short time at Toledo. He was same way. Ruined a program that was a national program. He tried to “buy us” with new gear. Fact was he ruined a great program and left for D3 thinking it would be easy. Toledo is crap now but maybe the new coach can help. He couldn’t get out of Coach Hadsell’s shadow and his crap training and “motivation” killed it. I quit. Sounds really familiar.
What was the training like? How did he try to motivate you guys?
So I ran for a UAA school other than Emory and I actually think those rules are ridiculous.
Look, no one is at Emory for any other reason other than academics. And because the academics are so stressful, the kids need a way to blow off steam. The team could be that, but more likely, a lot of the kids are involved with Greek life and generally have lives outside of the sport.
The coach's career depends on results but the kids, whatever, they're there to enjoy college and to have. I worked my butt off at practice, ran what I was told, lifted when I was told to lift, but that's that. I was in a frat, played IM sports, and enjoyed college otherwise. It's D3, get some perspective!
In agreement with above. I ran for a D1 program that had a new coach with a similar attitude and it was an absolute train wreck. The team tanked going from 4th at ncaas to 21st to never making it out of the region again. It was awful and when I read those 45 rules I got a flashback to signing a similar document when I was in school. The rules themselves aren't the problem (although some of them are clearly absurd): it's the obvious background insecurities and micromanagement that spawned it. I'm curious how many D3 (or D1) college programs force their athletes to sign something with 45 rules on it?
These athletes CHOSE to continue to compete in college with zero financial incentive. Just that fact alone should be enough to tell you that they are willing to train hard to be good. And if they aren't? Who cares? They are wasting their own time.
I'll give all prospective college coaches some free tips here: you will not change a team's culture by making rules. You will not have the respect of your athletes by writing a rule that says they must respect you. Respect is earned my friends, both by coaches and athletes alike. Respect is not written on paper, it is performed through actions. Figure that out and you'll be a good coach.
The problem is not the rules themselves, which are for the most part reasonable and up to par with a good D3 school (except the colors, injury, and sickness rules).
The problem is that he's such a lackluster coach that he needed to write the rules down to instill them. The majority of these rules arise naturally from a strong, dedicated team culture and athletes who want to show up to practice every day. Clearly he failed at sustaining sufficient excitement and dedication in the program.
Bottom line: there are more graceful and effective ways instill positive team culture.
these elite D3 schools have very low acceptance rates
there are thousands of kids who meet the median/average grade points and test scores who apply
the coaching staffs select athletes - WHO OTHERWISE MEET THE ACADEMIC STANDARDS - for preferential consideration for admittance
you get a pre read of your application and a yes or no from the admitting office very early in the process - before the regular acceptance notifications go out
many of these athletes who get admitted would not have been admitted otherwise - not because they were not qualified but rather without the varsity sport ticket nothing would have set them apart from the thousands of other applicants with similar grades, test scores, volunteer hours etc.
with regards to these academic elite D3 schools - having the coaching staff go to bat for an athlete to get them admitted is akin to a scholarship and comes along with expectations that should be similar to a D1-D2 athlete
Is it not expected that a new coach bringing in new standards and expectations would cause waves in an already established team? I loved my time at Emory, and I will admit I do not know how I would have done under a different coaching regime… but that being said, if I chose to leave I don’t think I would take it upon myself to then anonymously post on letsrun dissuading recruits from coming…
When I was there people left for all kinds of reasons: academics pile up, injuries are too burdensome, or they just want to do something else. My guess is that this student-written article is not completely reflective of the situation on the team.
Again, I loved my time at Emory. If there are any recruits reading this thread, Emory is definitely worth a look. I used to tell my coach that between the quality of the school, the location, and the access to great running trails, its only a matter of time before Emory becomes a powerhouse.
I was looking at the original wheel article and this was just posted. As always two sides to every story
da bearz wrote:
So I ran for a UAA school other than Emory and I actually think those rules are ridiculous.
Look, no one is at Emory for any other reason other than academics. And because the academics are so stressful, the kids need a way to blow off steam. The team could be that, but more likely, a lot of the kids are involved with Greek life and generally have lives outside of the sport.
The coach's career depends on results but the kids, whatever, they're there to enjoy college and to have. I worked my butt off at practice, ran what I was told, lifted when I was told to lift, but that's that. I was in a frat, played IM sports, and enjoyed college otherwise. It's D3, get some perspective!
You get some perspective. There are plenty of d3 teams that are back of the packers if you just want to be on a team and involved in other activities. If you go to a school that regularly qualifies for nats, you should commit to excellence.